OneManArmy

iTrader: (7)

Yeah vendor classifieds.

I was just using that as a guideline. The prices aren't gonna very that much. I've seen DB Tuned, GST, EQ motors all packaged at similar prices. Of course it's more when you add labor and more fun parts.



My opinion is that unless you punched a hole in the side or your block reuse it. Have your heads checked out. They might need to be gone through might not.

You can do a built block using your own motor for a LOT less than what you're paying and the work should be warrantied.

Maybe price that work with them and ask them why they're pushing the 2010 block besides it just being better. Of course you can always build better... question is... what do you NEED.

thejordan

iTrader: (8)

from my experiences living in both areas of california, socal shops are cheaper, the shops around here are a bit on the expensive side. socal is more competitive and has better prices, so take advantage of them while you're down there. both apollo and forman performance have good rates, they do a lot of builds and both use outfront motorsports for the actual motorwork and they do the labor. socal has a ton more subies than the sac area, they know what they're doing and how to do a proper budget build.

STi-owns-evo

iTrader: (4)

Your motor will NOT cost over $7k. Go somewhere else. I had my shortblock swapped in, and with a new clutch, timing belt, full major service, it cost a little over $5k.

If you need a list of shops (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=982178)

Obviously this is just a list and does not have what shops may have better reputations, but it does give you a few options to look at. As I said before, in regards to the shops closest to you, I'd recommend looking into Forman and Project Import. Even Cobb has a shop down here as well. Look and shop around, it can't hurt.

pete

iTrader: (1)

This still doesn't include any of the accessories (oil pump, oil cooler, timing belt, tensioner, gasket kit, etc) which are over $1000, or the headwork which will cost you another $1000+. You need to remember that the old motor has 90,000 miles on it so some things may not be safe to transfer over. A 2010 EJ257 short block is about $2000, this includes the new nitrided crank along with 8.2:1 pistons.

I built up a brand new short block a couple months ago with cosworth pistons, all accessories, head work, etc and it cost well over $5K for parts and services (all labor was done by me which significantly dropped the cost).

If the old block was salvageable along with the crank, I'd just reuse those items and start building up from there (w/machine work of course), it may save the OP about a grand or so.

Unit 91

In some cases you get what you pay for. I never said Paul was cheap, but he's good. Really good.

pete

iTrader: (1)

Just a heads up for a "real cost" with regards to working on an STi motor that I recently did. These prices are averages so they may be a little cheaper or more expensive in some places. This is just a list that I quickly threw up from my own receipts and may be missing items:

New Block (Slap accessories and heads on and you're good to go): ~$2000
New Head Studs: ~$200
New Oil Cooler: ~$200
New Oil Pump: ~$130
New Plugs: ~$35
New Timing Belt: ~$120
New Timing Belt Tensioner: ~$110
New Oil Filter: ~$10
New Master Gasket Set: ~$300
New Camshaft Gear Bolts: ~$20
Engine Oil: ~$30
Engine Coolant: ~$15
External Accessory Belts (AC, PS, Alternator): ~$??

Subtotal: 3350
Tax @8.25% (Or shipping): ~$276.375+
Total: 3626.375

Head Work ~$1000-1200:
-Pressure test each cylinder
-Resurface head
-Hot Tank Parts
-Valve and seat service
-Set Valve height
-Setting Valve Lash
-New Valve Guides

Engine parts along with $1200 in head work: $4826.375
Note: Engine Assembly still needs to be slapped together to make long block
Note: Parts still need to be installed
Note: Does not include removal of old block and installation of new setup


Optional due to high mileage, wanting shiny items, and/or failure of old block:
Fuel Filter: $60
Injector Cleaning: ~$80-120
New Oil Pan and Pick-up: ~$120
Shiny New Timing Belt Guide (Something non OEM): ~$50
Forged Pistons, Rings, Labor on setting ring gap: ~$1000+ ?
New Clutch: $ ??
Resurface old flywheel: $ ??

After looking at all this you begin to realize that $6500-7000 may be a fair OTD price seeing that there are a number of hours to be spent on labor.

OneManArmy

iTrader: (7)

But does he NEED a new block. That's my point.

Everyone assumes that as soon as you have an issue you need to purchase a brand new block.

I don't think anyone is arguing it's expensive. I wouldn't expect to pay any less than $4500 for a rebuild. The point is... what does he NEED. It seems like the shop is pushing a very expensive OPTION on him... as your price out is just that... an option.

Any chance you work at Rick's?

Who's doing the machine work for you because that seems pretty expensive for no upgrades.

It's very easy for things to add up if you start tacking on stuff that isn't a need or a necessity.

This dudes car is down and he is renting a vehicle. He needs the car back up/reliable. Seems to me that can be accomplished for less than $7000 if he's doing a stock rebuild.

I haven't seen anywhere that he's trying to do a build up.... that's something you do when you aren't renting a vehicle and NEED your car.




My point wasn't that the guy was being ripped off. The price is high but not outrageous considering the new block. I was just trying to find out what his needs are and give him some options.

My engine has 187,000 miles on it and unless I blow a hole in my block I plan on using it in my rebuild.

pete

iTrader: (1)

He may not need a new block but unless he has the time, it might not be an efficient way to use his money (that rental car thing), especially as I have no idea how the engine is seized.

Say you can reuse your cases, you'll still probably want new Main and Rod bearings ($100+), along with machine shop work to bore, hone, clean, and resurface your block ($275-300). Seeing how you're doing that you'll want to get new pistons and rings ($600+), and then you'll need someone to set the ring end gaps ($Labor). Hopefully you can reuse your old crank, but if you can't you'll be out another $300 or so, otherwise you'll probably want your old crank cleaned up and checked ($Machine Shop Labor). Hopefully your rods can be reused as well, otherwise you'll be out another $230 for OEM's or ~$350 for after markets. Oh yeah, and you'll also probably want to use new case bolts so you'll be looking at ~$120 for OEM's or $300 for ARP's.

Flat Irons Tuning actually has a decent rotating assembly for $1300 but you'll still need to do case work, so you start getting close to that brand new OEM $2000 price figure, which is warrantied, although you still get to wonder if your ringlands will go or not.

I got a quote from a well respected machine shop in the east bay that could assemble the long block for $450 given that everything was hunky dory. Head work was going to be $350 for 5 angle grind job not including valve lash which was another $200, and bronze guides were $80. I don't know if they were going to grind down the valve stems to make the lash work with the new cuts and old buckets, but if they weren't you'd be looking at around $30 per bucket that you needed to replace (16 valves). This doesn't include resurfacing, or pressure testing.

I personally chose to go to one of the respected Subaru shops in the north bay to get my headwork done and it cost me around $1200 for parts and labor. Have you had any service done to your heads? It's really surprising when you personally do it yourself (I know I thought it was going to be much cheaper until I did it).

Everything in the top section was OEM specific and not part of the buildup, it's due to the mileage on the motor as well as to how the car is sitting. I'm sure if you call around you will find that head work will be close to that $1000+ figure without doing anything special (I didn't do any porting or polishing or oversize valves, my heads are OEM with the exception of setting my exhaust valve clearance to .010").

I don't work at Ricks, my day job is being a network engineer.

I completely agree with you on reusing the old block if it makes sense financially and logically, sometimes it doesn't when you need to get your car back up ASAP due to other costs and time.

BTW: The plan for my old block is to throw some Darton sleeves in it, along with a very stout billet bottom end, strong connecting rods, and forged pistons again along with new heads. That is a different goal than most people though. I wanted to get my baby back up ASAP both from a financial and time aspect which is why I personally chose to go with a new shortblock from subaru along with forged pistons (damn those weak ring lands).

pete

iTrader: (1)

You'll have to think about this for a bit. How much do you like your vehicle and how much do you think you could get for it? An Excellent condition STi is worth $16,000 (Fair is $14,000) on KBB, not sure if you would or could get that much for it, subtract the convenience fee of not having a running car and you may be able to get around $8,000 for it.... if you're lucky.

Do you think you could get a decent, reliable vehicle that you would want for $8,000? Do you think you would be able to sell the vehicle in a non running state with a bad engine? How much of a hassle do you think that would be? How attached are you to the car?

These are all questions that you'll have to answer to come up to a conclusion.

I know I was quite frustrated myself when the engine blew in my subie.

OneManArmy

iTrader: (7)

True on all accounts.


And on my subaru. No I haven't. I have read prices... a lot. Since I know mine is going to go soon. I have had head work done before. I had the heads on my caddy done at one of the best shops in Santa Clara and it cost me $600 and they were in pretty bad shape.

Good point on the reuse of the block. That might be why they recommended a new one... time/warranty.

Personally... I'd just call a local shop and ask them what the same work would cost. My guess is it won't be too far off using the same equipment. I figure anything over like $6500 for stock stuff seems a bit high... but I know **** for ****. I'm not a shop.

Crap part is... when you don't have time EVERYTHING costs more.

bsbretly

iTrader: (14)

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate all the info. At this point I am going to go through w/ a new shortblock and see where that takes me. Pual seems like a really nice guy and from what I've read, he knows his subarus. If I do spend a significant amount of money, I want something that will last and is put together correctly, so I think my car is in the right place.

OneManArmy

iTrader: (7)

Good for you. Glad you're keeping it.

I think with the new block and the warranty and with Paul's work you'll be good to go. If you have the money it's probably a really solid plan. Warranties are awesome. They do a lot of great work out of that shop.

If he's not giving you money for what you're pulling out I'd keep it and sell it. People will buy the block halves and things like that.