Question: Will the plane fly? (warning: nerdy)
01-23-2006, 11:02 PM
#76
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This makes my head hurt. Here I go:
Picture pushing a toy-car on a treadmill. The treadmill is moving 10mph towards you, and you push the car 10 mph away from you
nevermind... i don't know what i am saying. i hate this
10,000(from plane) - 10,000n (opposing force from treadmill) = 0n of forward progress.
nevermind... i don't know what i am saying. i hate this
01-24-2006, 12:09 AM
#77
Hm...I'm confused. People are talking to technically for me.
So heres my understanding of a plane. It accelerates going forward picking up speed and then it uses the rudders to channel the air going through so that it would take off (lift?)
Just to clarify, does a plane take off based on the speed of air around it or based off the air going through its engines?
Now on a treadmill floor device, it will accelerate to the proper takeoff speed. Will that mean that the air around it will still be staying still?
If the plane is dependent on the air going around it, it shouldn't fly right? But if the air is channeled through properly, then it should fly?
So heres my understanding of a plane. It accelerates going forward picking up speed and then it uses the rudders to channel the air going through so that it would take off (lift?)
Just to clarify, does a plane take off based on the speed of air around it or based off the air going through its engines?
Now on a treadmill floor device, it will accelerate to the proper takeoff speed. Will that mean that the air around it will still be staying still?
If the plane is dependent on the air going around it, it shouldn't fly right? But if the air is channeled through properly, then it should fly?
01-24-2006, 12:14 AM
#78
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Originally Posted by Imprezer
But now I cannot say for sure, haha, if the belt even matters at all or not. 
Because if as you all say that the wheels will spin 2x the normal speed, it means that the engines will need to produce 2x the thrust. 100% to "catch up" with the belts speed and another 100% to get to its take off speed.
Because if as you all say that the wheels will spin 2x the normal speed, it means that the engines will need to produce 2x the thrust. 100% to "catch up" with the belts speed and another 100% to get to its take off speed. I'm amazed how some otherwise intelligent people are not understanding this... I have to post this a few other places and see how smart they are
01-24-2006, 12:31 AM
#80
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Originally Posted by MBasile
theoretically I guess the plane would fly, but realistically, it would not
Realistically, where are you going to find a runway sized treadmill?
01-24-2006, 12:37 AM
#81
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Originally Posted by Racenut
If the wheel bearings were 100% of the resistance the engines had to overcome, yeah.. but they are a small part of the actual resistance.
I'm amazed how some otherwise intelligent people are not understanding this... I have to post this a few other places and see how smart they are
I'm amazed how some otherwise intelligent people are not understanding this... I have to post this a few other places and see how smart they are
01-24-2006, 08:28 AM
#82
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Alex, one more time....
THE PLANES MOTION HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE SPEED OF ROTATION OF ITS WHEELS, THEREFORE IT IS NOT AFFECTED AT ALL BY THE TREADMILL, AND THE TREADMILL CANNOT MAKE THE PLANE "STAND STILL".
The condition you are describing would require a tether or tie downs, rolling the treadmill has ABSOLUTELY NO effect on the plane once it begins moving because the plane is driven by the thrust of its engine NOT by the turning of its wheels.
THE PLANES MOTION HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE SPEED OF ROTATION OF ITS WHEELS, THEREFORE IT IS NOT AFFECTED AT ALL BY THE TREADMILL, AND THE TREADMILL CANNOT MAKE THE PLANE "STAND STILL".
The condition you are describing would require a tether or tie downs, rolling the treadmill has ABSOLUTELY NO effect on the plane once it begins moving because the plane is driven by the thrust of its engine NOT by the turning of its wheels.
Last edited by psoper; 01-24-2006 at 08:30 AM.
01-24-2006, 11:14 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by Imprezer
Or, would the belt not affect the planes speed at all? I am not sure myself now.
Winner, the belt does NOTHING to the air speed of the plane.
Planes are not at all like cars. They don't need the ground to impart force upon (duh), they impart force on the air. So as long as the plane is on and the brakes are off, it will take off, regardless of the movement of its wheels or the run way.
A treadmill cannot make a plane stand still. Even if you tied down a plane and ran it on a treadmill, then the treadmill and wheels wouldn't even move.
The only way for a traditional plane (wings and only backward thrust) to hover is to have the wind speed be equall to the speed needed to provide lift. In a wind tunnel, for example.
Last edited by MVWRX; 01-24-2006 at 11:22 AM.
01-24-2006, 11:26 AM
#84
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lol..there was like a 40+ page thread on this on HT.
The plane will fly, the wheels are not powered, so the fact that there is a blet has nothing to do with the plane flying or not
The plane will fly, the wheels are not powered, so the fact that there is a blet has nothing to do with the plane flying or not
01-24-2006, 11:31 AM
#85
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Originally Posted by ucbsti
lol..there was like a 40+ page thread on this on HT.
The plane will fly, the wheels are not powered, so the fact that there is a blet has nothing to do with the plane flying or not
The plane will fly, the wheels are not powered, so the fact that there is a blet has nothing to do with the plane flying or not
Word, we have a concensus. To the next person who says the plane wouldn't fly:
STOP, don't post, think about it, read the thread. Then be happy you didn't post.
01-24-2006, 11:37 AM
#86
Originally Posted by MVWRX
Word, we have a concensus. To the next person who says the plane wouldn't fly:
STOP, don't post, think about it, read the thread. Then be happy you didn't post.
STOP, don't post, think about it, read the thread. Then be happy you didn't post.
$5 says someone still comes in and says the plane won't fly because there is no lift generated because the plane isn't moving!
01-24-2006, 02:11 PM
#88
Originally Posted by Racenut
It took all of 30 seconds for my 11 year old daughter to understand this concept.
01-24-2006, 03:19 PM
#89
The speed over the ground, or a conveyor belt, when an airplane takes off is irrelevant; all that matters is its speed through the air, and unless the pilot sets the brakes, a moving conveyor belt -- under the freely turning wheels -- cannot stop the process of acceleration.
It's like flying a kite, you don't necessary have to 'run' (moving relative to ground) to fly the damn thing. As long as you have enough wind speed, it'll fly! I am sure many of you have done it when you were a kid on a hilll or an open ground (with a lot of wind).
With that said, I think that's why a lot of people are saying it won't TAKE-OFF. Because the prop or jet won't generate enough air flow (or airplane speed in relation to air).
01-24-2006, 03:36 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by iBlueVirus
With that said, I think that's why a lot of people are saying it won't TAKE-OFF. Because the prop or jet won't generate enough air flow (or airplane speed in relation to air).
No offense to you or anyone else making this claim, but why the hell wouldn't it? The only reason it wouldn't be able to is if the wheels had a top speed of less than 2X the take off speed (and therfore actually slowed the plane down). And since this is a hypothetical question, I beleive that it is assumed that the wheels won't fall apart or hinder the plane in any way.
In other words; what will a moving runway do to affect the props/jets of a plane at all? Nothing.
Last edited by MVWRX; 01-24-2006 at 03:44 PM.