Question: Will the plane fly? (warning: nerdy)
01-21-2006, 10:34 PM
#1
Question: Will the plane fly? (warning: nerdy)
I was asked this by a friend and I thought it was an interesting question.
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in opposite direction).
The question is:
Will the plane take off or not?
Lets see how smart the BAIC really is
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in opposite direction).
The question is:
Will the plane take off or not?
Lets see how smart the BAIC really is
01-21-2006, 10:40 PM
#5
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yes the plane will fly, its widely covered on the internet. A plane is not like a car, the wheels to not determine the speed. It will move the same amount of air no matter how fast/slow the wheels are spinning.
You i-clubbers need to get out more.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=891480
You i-clubbers need to get out more.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=891480
01-21-2006, 10:43 PM
#7
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Maybe we should just delete it now. This debate will go on forever. People will always dissagree with it. The answer isn't important.
The plane/jet flies though. If you want to find a real answer, there is a link in the nabisco thread that has an experiment with a hotwheels car(free wheel movement) and a piece of paper that proves it will fly.
The plane/jet flies though. If you want to find a real answer, there is a link in the nabisco thread that has an experiment with a hotwheels car(free wheel movement) and a piece of paper that proves it will fly.
01-21-2006, 10:48 PM
#10
The plane will indeed move and take off because its exerting a thrust force on the air rather than putting its power to the ground through the wheels. The wheels just spin freely and the only thing the conveyer is doing is spinning them twice as fast.
Anyway... mods please feel free to delete this since it seems its an old topic.
Thanks
Anyway... mods please feel free to delete this since it seems its an old topic.
Thanks
01-21-2006, 11:10 PM
#12
Basically the plane on the conveyer belt would have to be in a really damn powerful wind tunnel or it aint goin anywhere.. The lift of the plane is soley generated by the passage of airflow around the wings. No airflow = no flight period! I'm sure this has already been stated but I'm too inebriated to read over every post word for word.
01-21-2006, 11:10 PM
#13
Originally Posted by knight1833
the ground moving beneath the wheels of the plane doesn't generate any relative wind (wind movement over the wings). the wings will not generate lift ... so the plane won't fly.
the only way a plane can takeoff without moving the entire plane forward (not just have the wheels roll fast) is if there is a wind that is moving atleast as fast as the airplane's stall speed in any given configuration. if you doubt this try seeing if the wing on your car generates downforce while you're running on a dyno w/o a fan blowing air over your car ... same principle just a different direction
Edit:
planes don't exert any of their power through their tires ... just the prop/turbine
the air they exert force on serves only to propel the aircraft through the air, they do not generate enough airflow to allow the wings to generate enough lift to get the aircraft off the ground. if this theory was true why would designers place engines below the wings where the thrust doesn't go over the wing; or behind the wings on the tail of the aircraft?
the only way a plane can takeoff without moving the entire plane forward (not just have the wheels roll fast) is if there is a wind that is moving atleast as fast as the airplane's stall speed in any given configuration. if you doubt this try seeing if the wing on your car generates downforce while you're running on a dyno w/o a fan blowing air over your car ... same principle just a different direction
Edit:
planes don't exert any of their power through their tires ... just the prop/turbine
the air they exert force on serves only to propel the aircraft through the air, they do not generate enough airflow to allow the wings to generate enough lift to get the aircraft off the ground. if this theory was true why would designers place engines below the wings where the thrust doesn't go over the wing; or behind the wings on the tail of the aircraft?
Since the prop or turbine exerts force only on the air, the plane WILL move through the air. The wheels are free to spin at any rate they need to in order to keep up with the plane. The only difference in the case of the conveyer is that the wheels will have to spin at twice the rate they normally would on stationary ground. Now since the plane is in fact moving through the air, it generates lift just fine and takes off.
01-21-2006, 11:49 PM
#15
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I was wrong because I was thinking about the situation wrong.
when i first read the question i assumed that the aircraft would be stationary, that the wheels would move and the plane wouldn't. this is the car on a dyno comparrison, that was a wrong assumption.
the aircraft would still move down the runway and thus create the required airspeed and lift.
the aircraft's tires would simply be rolling twice as fast as the aircraft was moving.
this is because the aircraft is generating the force that moves it forward from the prop/turbine, not the tires just as EQ said
this is similar to a seaplane taking off while headed upstream, the water is flowing backwards (according to the plane)
sorry for bein so adamant, it's been a long day here
when i first read the question i assumed that the aircraft would be stationary, that the wheels would move and the plane wouldn't. this is the car on a dyno comparrison, that was a wrong assumption.
the aircraft would still move down the runway and thus create the required airspeed and lift.
the aircraft's tires would simply be rolling twice as fast as the aircraft was moving.
this is because the aircraft is generating the force that moves it forward from the prop/turbine, not the tires just as EQ said
this is similar to a seaplane taking off while headed upstream, the water is flowing backwards (according to the plane)
sorry for bein so adamant, it's been a long day here