Question for the gun owners
09-07-2008, 11:36 PM
#46
Registered User
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Land Of The Dead
Posts: 3,863
Car Info: Cage and Slicks and Wing OH MY!!
Kimbers and springfields both great guns,
I had my eye on the Springfield Operater before i bought my kimber. I just didnt like the way it sat in my hand, but the kimber is OH-SO-Perfect =)
I had my eye on the Springfield Operater before i bought my kimber. I just didnt like the way it sat in my hand, but the kimber is OH-SO-Perfect =)
09-08-2008, 10:08 AM
#47
Friendly Neighborhood Ogre
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: www.gunatics.com
Posts: 19,930
Car Info: GUNATICS.COM
I meant you'd have to be either a freak or a liar to outshoot the G23 with a G29 (as per your original post), i.e. I find it highly unlikely that you'd be able to shoot a subcompact 10mm better than a compact .40. I find it highly believable that the G26 can outshoot the G23. The G26 is one of the most accurate Glocks, right up there with the G30. Something about those subcompacts - I gotta get me one one of these days - maybe the G30SF, but then what would I do with my 1911? 
I have a friend Ray that shot a G26 (9mm bably glock) at a target at 100 yards away and nailed it in the chest. He was in a standing firing position and nailed that target repeatedly.
09-08-2008, 10:15 AM
#48
Friendly Neighborhood Ogre
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: www.gunatics.com
Posts: 19,930
Car Info: GUNATICS.COM
Another thing I should warn newbie shooters with is the ultra compact 1911 pistols. The original 1911 was designed to be full size, and when it is decreased in size to become a compact or ultra compact pistol it will NOT function correctly. You have to do some major modifications to the pistol im order for it to fire reliably. This is not based of one single personal experience, but based off many things I've read, seen personally, and heard people talk about in person. There are a lot of specific details that I wont go into right now because I have to type with one hand since my injury, but trust me, if you get a 1911 make sure you get a 5" model at LEAST... Even then 1911s aren't so reliable out of the box and require some tuning to be 100% accurate out of the box, that is unless you get a VERY high end gun... any gun under $1500 or so pretty much needs some tuning to make it 100% reliable... Boy are they accurate as a mother f'er though! I love my 1911 but would never use it in a combat situation unless I had to.
Sorry if Im rabling, I'm in a great deal of pain, on pain killers and typing with one hand...
I'm gimplee
Sorry if Im rabling, I'm in a great deal of pain, on pain killers and typing with one hand...
I'm gimplee
09-08-2008, 10:26 AM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pleasanton CA
Posts: 158
Car Info: 2 feet
being that i do this for a living ill chime in.
when looking for a defensive gun. one thins to remember is what works for me may not work for you.
some people say a 9mm is inadequate but its a what carry on a day to day basis(infact its sitting next to me as i type) i am of the firm belief that calliber isnt as much of an issue as shot placement. anything 380 and up is more than adequate(in reality even a 32 will do, hell a 22 is very lethal also though it lacks the kinetic energy to get the desired effect IMO)
the best advise i can give is this. stick with the major brands(i am partial to sig or glock myself) find the gun that fits your hand(hence if it fits your hand you will want to shoot it more often... theres no replacement for practice.) once you have found a couple of guns, try shooting different calibers in those models. find what you can handle and what you like about the action when fired... if you dont like it, walk away and find something else.
dont rule out a revolver.
try to stay away from the sub-compacts for a first gun. nothing against them, they just tend to have a lot more violent action. something new shooters generally dont respond too well to.
another thing to bear in mind is your surroundings. if you think you may have issues with over penetration look into lower velocity higher mass calibers.(45acp being the most prevalent) keep in mind that there are MANY different types of ammo, you dont always need or want the hottest fastest new thing.
im gonna stop typing all of this as i will inevitably just ramble on. if you want some more advice hit me up at the shop (Irvington Arms) or, hit me up via PM. i would gladly let you sample some of my weapons if you would like to meet up at livermore rod and gun on a sunday... but im gonna be gone for 2 weeks, so it would have to be after that.
PS im in agreement with the posts about a shotgun for home D. though keep in mind you still need to aim... once again shot placement. (average spread for 00 buck is 1in for ever 3 yards, if i remember correctly... i will need to double check)
when looking for a defensive gun. one thins to remember is what works for me may not work for you.
some people say a 9mm is inadequate but its a what carry on a day to day basis(infact its sitting next to me as i type) i am of the firm belief that calliber isnt as much of an issue as shot placement. anything 380 and up is more than adequate(in reality even a 32 will do, hell a 22 is very lethal also though it lacks the kinetic energy to get the desired effect IMO)
the best advise i can give is this. stick with the major brands(i am partial to sig or glock myself) find the gun that fits your hand(hence if it fits your hand you will want to shoot it more often... theres no replacement for practice.) once you have found a couple of guns, try shooting different calibers in those models. find what you can handle and what you like about the action when fired... if you dont like it, walk away and find something else.
dont rule out a revolver.
try to stay away from the sub-compacts for a first gun. nothing against them, they just tend to have a lot more violent action. something new shooters generally dont respond too well to.
another thing to bear in mind is your surroundings. if you think you may have issues with over penetration look into lower velocity higher mass calibers.(45acp being the most prevalent) keep in mind that there are MANY different types of ammo, you dont always need or want the hottest fastest new thing.
im gonna stop typing all of this as i will inevitably just ramble on. if you want some more advice hit me up at the shop (Irvington Arms) or, hit me up via PM. i would gladly let you sample some of my weapons if you would like to meet up at livermore rod and gun on a sunday... but im gonna be gone for 2 weeks, so it would have to be after that.
PS im in agreement with the posts about a shotgun for home D. though keep in mind you still need to aim... once again shot placement. (average spread for 00 buck is 1in for ever 3 yards, if i remember correctly... i will need to double check)
Last edited by CSeaBass; 09-08-2008 at 10:29 AM.
09-08-2008, 10:28 AM
#50
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Third, Hollywood gun use includes racking a round into the chamber before use. They even show people that have to shoot for a living carrying an unloaded gun. That, my friend, is f***in' bull$*!t. That's like leaving your gas tank dry when you need to drive somewhere. If you look at movies and tv from the standpoint of proper and appropriate gun use, the bada$$es, e.g. Insp. Harry Callahan, John McClane, Martin Riggs, etc, do not carry/keep unloaded weapons at the ready. In fact, it makes them "scary" because they're ready to go. Scary=Good. Scary=Alive.
Good Luck and enjoy. I hope you never have to "defend" yourself.
My gun(s) are always loaded, always ready, and hopefully, never needed.
09-08-2008, 10:30 AM
#51
Friendly Neighborhood Ogre
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: www.gunatics.com
Posts: 19,930
Car Info: GUNATICS.COM
Here's my 1911, which is the Springfield Loaded model that comes with everything and the kitchen sink. 
Sooo damn accurate that its ridiculous.
As you can see I replaced the grips so that it looks like Agent 47's silverballer from the Hitman game series.
Here's Agent 47's gun:
I'd say its a very close match. I still can't get over how well this guy fires, so smooth, tight, accurate, and has yet to fail me and I've fired over 500 rounds and still haven't cleaned it. Doing a test to see how long it will go without a cleaning.
Its much nicer than most Kimbers that I've fired... and when you buy a 1911, you really do get what you pay for. There's a reason the USGI ones cost around $500 and why the higher end ones cost $1500-3000. I'd never spend more than $1200 on a pistol because I can't justify that cost... Why spend $1500+ for a PISTOL when you can get a very good Glock or comprable pistol for $500-650... The only thing the 1911 will beat the other pistols in out of the box is accuracy, but not by $1000 worth of accuracy. The glock 21 I have is almost on par with my 1911 in terms of accuracy, far more durable, way cheaper, will fire any ammo (unlike the 1911), and the list just goes on.
Only reason I got a 1911 like that was for the Hitman novalty factor. Call me cheesy, but whos the one with the gun!? 
Sooo damn accurate that its ridiculous. As you can see I replaced the grips so that it looks like Agent 47's silverballer from the Hitman game series.
Here's Agent 47's gun:
I'd say its a very close match. I still can't get over how well this guy fires, so smooth, tight, accurate, and has yet to fail me and I've fired over 500 rounds and still haven't cleaned it. Doing a test to see how long it will go without a cleaning.
Its much nicer than most Kimbers that I've fired... and when you buy a 1911, you really do get what you pay for. There's a reason the USGI ones cost around $500 and why the higher end ones cost $1500-3000. I'd never spend more than $1200 on a pistol because I can't justify that cost... Why spend $1500+ for a PISTOL when you can get a very good Glock or comprable pistol for $500-650... The only thing the 1911 will beat the other pistols in out of the box is accuracy, but not by $1000 worth of accuracy. The glock 21 I have is almost on par with my 1911 in terms of accuracy, far more durable, way cheaper, will fire any ammo (unlike the 1911), and the list just goes on.
Only reason I got a 1911 like that was for the Hitman novalty factor.
Call me cheesy, but whos the one with the gun!?
09-08-2008, 10:36 AM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pleasanton CA
Posts: 158
Car Info: 2 feet
Here's my 1911, which is the Springfield Loaded model that comes with everything and the kitchen sink. Sooo damn accurate that its ridiculous.
As you can see I replaced the grips so that it looks like Agent 47's silverballer from the Hitman game series.
Here's Agent 47's gun:
I'd say its a very close match. I still can't get over how well this guy fires, so smooth, tight, accurate, and has yet to fail me and I've fired over 500 rounds and still haven't cleaned it. Doing a test to see how long it will go without a cleaning.
Its much nicer than most Kimbers that I've fired... and when you buy a 1911, you really do get what you pay for. There's a reason the USGI ones cost around $500 and why the higher end ones cost $1500-3000. I'd never spend more than $1200 on a pistol because I can't justify that cost... Why spend $1500+ for a PISTOL when you can get a very good Glock or comprable pistol for $500-650... The only thing the 1911 will beat the other pistols in out of the box is accuracy, but not by $1000 worth of accuracy. The glock 21 I have is almost on par with my 1911 in terms of accuracy, far more durable, way cheaper, will fire any ammo (unlike the 1911), and the list just goes on.
Only reason I got a 1911 like that was for the Hitman novalty factor. Call me cheesy, but whos the one with the gun!?
Sooo damn accurate that its ridiculous. As you can see I replaced the grips so that it looks like Agent 47's silverballer from the Hitman game series.
Here's Agent 47's gun:
I'd say its a very close match. I still can't get over how well this guy fires, so smooth, tight, accurate, and has yet to fail me and I've fired over 500 rounds and still haven't cleaned it. Doing a test to see how long it will go without a cleaning.
Its much nicer than most Kimbers that I've fired... and when you buy a 1911, you really do get what you pay for. There's a reason the USGI ones cost around $500 and why the higher end ones cost $1500-3000. I'd never spend more than $1200 on a pistol because I can't justify that cost... Why spend $1500+ for a PISTOL when you can get a very good Glock or comprable pistol for $500-650... The only thing the 1911 will beat the other pistols in out of the box is accuracy, but not by $1000 worth of accuracy. The glock 21 I have is almost on par with my 1911 in terms of accuracy, far more durable, way cheaper, will fire any ammo (unlike the 1911), and the list just goes on.
Only reason I got a 1911 like that was for the Hitman novalty factor.
Call me cheesy, but whos the one with the gun!? also ramped vs stepped plays a big factor in this. though a stepped barrel is well capable.(i personally think a step is just find the gun i have seen feed empty brass was stepped)
nice loaded. got a US frame too...(only way to go IMO)
09-08-2008, 10:38 AM
#53
Friendly Neighborhood Ogre
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: www.gunatics.com
Posts: 19,930
Car Info: GUNATICS.COM
being that i do this for a living ill chime in.
when looking for a defensive gun. one thins to remember is what works for me may not work for you.
some people say a 9mm is inadequate but its a what carry on a day to day basis(infact its sitting next to me as i type) i am of the firm belief that calliber isnt as much of an issue as shot placement. anything 380 and up is more than adequate(in reality even a 32 will do, hell a 22 is very lethal also though it lacks the kinetic energy to get the desired effect IMO)
when looking for a defensive gun. one thins to remember is what works for me may not work for you.
some people say a 9mm is inadequate but its a what carry on a day to day basis(infact its sitting next to me as i type) i am of the firm belief that calliber isnt as much of an issue as shot placement. anything 380 and up is more than adequate(in reality even a 32 will do, hell a 22 is very lethal also though it lacks the kinetic energy to get the desired effect IMO)
I have an M6 streamlight + laser module that I use and on top of my night sights (Glock 21). There is NOTHING better for fast target aquisition than a laser. I know a lot of folks hate lasers for whatever reason, but I'm a firm believer in them for certain purposes such as home defense especially if there are two suspects and you need to keep your eyes focused on both which is where the laser comes in... Aim it at the center of mass and if the other attacker tries to take you out you can aim that laser onto him in 1/1000 of a second and fire 5 rounds off before he even hits the floor and have the gun aimed back at the original guy before he can even react.
I never understood why people hated lasers so much especially for defensive situations... If you're hunting someone, yeah, the laser would suck and give you away, but in defense using a calibrated laser is a very nice tool to have.
The end.
Last edited by brucelee; 09-08-2008 at 10:40 AM.
09-08-2008, 10:39 AM
#54
Registered User
09-08-2008, 10:51 AM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pleasanton CA
Posts: 158
Car Info: 2 feet
Of course shot placement is key, but there are many variables that comprimise ones ability to shoot like they do at the range. High stress situations make a lot of people shoot sloppy and most people aren't used to moving targets, etc. Most people don't look through the gun sights properly when trying to detain a suspect, just a lot of variables that can happen during a nasty situation...
I have an M6 streamlight + laser module that I use and on top of my night sights (Glock 21). There is NOTHING better for fast target aquisition than a laser. I know a lot of folks hate lasers for whatever reason, but I'm a firm believer in them for certain purposes such as home defense especially if there are two suspects and you need to keep your eyes focused on both which is where the laser comes in... Aim it at the center of mass and if the other attacker tries to take you out you can aim that laser onto him in 1/1000 of a second and fire 5 rounds off before he even hits the floor and have the gun aimed back at the original guy before he can even react.
I never understood why people hated lasers so much especially for defensive situations... If you're hunting someone, yeah, the laser would suck and give you away, but in defense using a calibrated laser is a very nice tool to have.
The end.
I have an M6 streamlight + laser module that I use and on top of my night sights (Glock 21). There is NOTHING better for fast target aquisition than a laser. I know a lot of folks hate lasers for whatever reason, but I'm a firm believer in them for certain purposes such as home defense especially if there are two suspects and you need to keep your eyes focused on both which is where the laser comes in... Aim it at the center of mass and if the other attacker tries to take you out you can aim that laser onto him in 1/1000 of a second and fire 5 rounds off before he even hits the floor and have the gun aimed back at the original guy before he can even react.
I never understood why people hated lasers so much especially for defensive situations... If you're hunting someone, yeah, the laser would suck and give you away, but in defense using a calibrated laser is a very nice tool to have.
The end.
if i were the burglar and i sway a light, im shooting the light. that is the common theme with that line of thought. it also is a crutch IMO.. i can not tell you how many times i have had people ask me to shoot their weapons with lasers only to find out, the batts were dead. if it can go wrong it will.
(i will however defend the use of a laser on say, a J frame or somthing else of that size)
getting stressors into training isnt hard. it is also said that fine motor skills are reduced by half in shooting/stressful situations. something i can personally attest to.
but now we are getting away from the original topic which is finding a weapon. i dont want to throw too much info out there and overwhelm anyone(something i am very good at :/ )
09-08-2008, 11:03 AM
#58
Friendly Neighborhood Ogre
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: www.gunatics.com
Posts: 19,930
Car Info: GUNATICS.COM
if i were the burglar and i sway a light, im shooting the light. that is the common theme with that line of thought. it also is a crutch IMO.. i can not tell you how many times i have had people ask me to shoot their weapons with lasers only to find out, the batts were dead. if it can go wrong it will.
(i will however defend the use of a laser on say, a J frame or somthing else of that size)
getting stressors into training isnt hard. it is also said that fine motor skills are reduced by half in shooting/stressful situations. something i can personally attest to.
but now we are getting away from the original topic which is finding a weapon. i dont want to throw too much info out there and overwhelm anyone(something i am very good at :/ )
(i will however defend the use of a laser on say, a J frame or somthing else of that size)
getting stressors into training isnt hard. it is also said that fine motor skills are reduced by half in shooting/stressful situations. something i can personally attest to.
but now we are getting away from the original topic which is finding a weapon. i dont want to throw too much info out there and overwhelm anyone(something i am very good at :/ )
The laser I have wont ever be dead because the life of the thing is insane for just laser use, and I change batteries every 6 months when I dont use the thing... if I do use it for practice I change the batteries after 5 hours of use even though it can work for like 20+ hours. If you're smart your batteries wont run out.
Also, they are great intimidation tools.
09-08-2008, 11:13 AM
#59
Friendly Neighborhood Ogre
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: www.gunatics.com
Posts: 19,930
Car Info: GUNATICS.COM
You can't tell, but it has an INSANE green laser that is about 100 times brighter than the streamlight pistol laser. Its intent is to BLIND, the beam is very broad and since its the green wavelength its beyond bright... so bright in fact that I can't look at the beam when I point it at a wall from 30 feet away... its too bright. Its a tool for intimidation, and to blind/disorient... Or if I want to shoot something from 200 yards away I can because the laser is visible, but I;d never do that. Just for intimidation and blinding. The holosight takes care of everything else, and if it doesnt work I have backup detach flip-up iron sights... but Im **** with the slim holosight as I am with all my electronics and it has an insane battery life. Same as the standard EOtech only not as tall which is what I prefer.
Out of all my rifles, the AR-15 and the M1A are by FAR the funnest to shoot. The M1A, even with its 16" barrel is accurate as HELL at 100 yards... .308 is a very dangerous round and puts .223/5.56 to shame im terms of ballistics, but that AR-15 with 40 round mag, or even 100 round drum is like a DREAM to fire! My ARs and AKs are all pre-ban and were bought in 98 and 99 if you're wondering
09-08-2008, 11:22 AM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pleasanton CA
Posts: 158
Car Info: 2 feet
nice rifles.
give me some time and ill post pics of my Troy 18" scout m1a and the ar...
as for wondering im not in the enforcment business, i could care less if ya had a high yeild thermo-nuclear weapon. hell, if ya had a doomsday device i might ask for one for myself nothing like M.A.D. scenarios.
i was 3 months too young for the ban(had 15+ grand to spend too
)... though i have stuff out of state(im gonna sell it all next week for some class 3 goodness)
give me some time and ill post pics of my Troy 18" scout m1a and the ar...
as for wondering im not in the enforcment business, i could care less if ya had a high yeild thermo-nuclear weapon. hell, if ya had a doomsday device i might ask for one for myself
nothing like M.A.D. scenarios. i was 3 months too young for the ban(had 15+ grand to spend too
)... though i have stuff out of state(im gonna sell it all next week for some class 3 goodness)