flatline

iTrader: (11)

i would have to disagree on burglars coming in numbers

i work in oakland and probably 99 percent of the time, its a crackhead that climbed through a window.



i do see your point of view on maintaining your concealment by not using a lazer.....

flatline

iTrader: (11)

one thing to take in to account also is STRESS / MALFUNCTIONS.

an ordinary person would not be able to operate their firearm if it malfunctions.

lets say you get a misfire and need to Tap Rack. an average person would freeze up during a high stress situation.


but with a revolver, you can simply pull the trigger again.... just food for thought.

LICmotorsports

iTrader: (10)

you are dead on with this statement, believe me coming from a guy who "worked in the industry", guns and ammo is very expensive, and ammo will interfere with practicing (unless you got a fair amount of disposable income).

None the less, everyone is going to have there opinions....YOU WILL find the I HATE GLOCKS and the I LOVE GLOCK lovers, there is no middle ground.

I'm pretty sure speaking for Brucelee, Lurk, and myself....I know first hand we all love glocks.

If you can stomach the price of a Kimber, get it (its probably one of the best out of the box shooters) BUT it can be a finiky gun just like a lot of all high end gucci guns, they are designed to be cleaned and taken extra special care of everytime you go shooting and some inbetween shooting. DON'T get me wrong, Kimber's are the sh*t, and I regret I don't own one in my collection to this day. (Kimber TLE/RLII FTW).

For me I like the Glock b/c of the feel, and the ease of use (and yes I have a handful of PITA guns to clean, this is not the only reason why I like the glock, as I do know how to care for all makes/models). Literally anyone can learn to field strip a glock in minutes, whereas most 1911's although easy once learned, they are very easy to scratch and get frustrated with trying to align everything just right.

I did a test with one of my glocks when I was at work about a year or so ago (I had more the my LIC job), I decided to put some of the "stuff about glocks to the test", so I took my glock 23 (compact .40) and wanted to see how many rounds i could shoot through it prior to a jam, stove pipe, or a malfunction. Well I made it over 8,000 and the worst I got was a stove pipe (from the build of debris on the feed ramp). I whiped the ramp and it went until a mag spring lost tenstion causing a feed issue (this was b/c my gun and mags have had over 25k rounds through it)....That in my book is not bad, but this is just my experience, and why I still trust a glock by my side.

*and just for the glock haters, I find it very hard to stay consistent with my 23 (I think the compact frame and the torquey .40 is just a bit much for that frame), I can honestly shoot my 26 better and thats a sub compact frame BUT its a 9mm. But to each's own, pratice, pratice, and more pratice...firearms is not a knack, its a learned trait and comes from memory. You must shoot and shoot often for the short term muscle memory of it.

-Noah

kyoung05

iTrader: (2)

Noah, I think you meant the G26 is the subcompact 9mm. The G29 is a subcompact 10mm, and if you're telling me you can shoot that better than the G23, I'd say you're either a freak or a liar.


To the OP, if you're looking strictly for a home-defense gun, don't even look at a handgun. Like others have said, handguns are a compromise - you give up stopping power for concealability. When you're in your own home, concealability is not a problem. Handguns are also much harder to hit things with, especially when you're adrenaline is pumping. Get something with a full stock, either a carbine or shotgun. If you're feeling a bit more "spendy," look into an "Off-List-Lower" build - basically an AR-15 with a magazine lock. Even with the lock, I'd feel much better with 10rds of .223 than 10rds of 95% of pistol rounds any day of the week. A quality AR build will probably run you about $800-$1000, plus whatever optics you want to add. You can also get an AK-47 with mag-lock for about half that. If you want to get the best "bang-for-the-buck," get a Mossberg 500 combo which comes with the 18.5" barrel for home defense and the longer barrel for shooting clays. I think Big 5 still sells these on sale occasionally for about $300. Sure, a shotgun will hold less rounds, but I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who'd take 10rds of .45acp over 5 or 6rds of 12ga. 00 buck. You can even get a magazine extension for most shotguns which can increase the capacity. Whatever you do, don't replace the shotgun stock with just a pistol grip - it makes your once-functional shotgun useless.

For more extensive CA gun ownership information (beyond what you can expect to find on a Subaru forum), check out www.calguns.net
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Essential Vaaapp Vaporizer

Electra

iTrader: (1)

For home protection my first instinct would be land mines, but since those aren't readily available I reccomend a 12 gauge. I think thats the best and most effective, even through a door...if you have yourself barricaded.
I have two in my house along with the Remington 870 20 gauge that I use mostly for trap shooting, but if worse comes to worse, Im going to blow someone's head off with it. I used to have a Sig but it was so tiny that I didnt like the feel of it in my hand, so i gave it to my Mom and bought a Glock 10... Or maybe I should be the devil and tell you to get a Desert Eagle .50 AE...

kyoung05

iTrader: (2)

As an aside, I think that, in my opinion, claiming that the "noise" of a shotgun racking is enough to scare the intruders out your home is asinine. Any "warning" you give the intruders, whether it be verbal, by racking your shotgun (it should ALREADY BE RACKED AND LOADED!!!), or by warning shot is a very bad idea. Not only do you give away your position (knowing the layout of your own home and maintaining the element of surprise is one of the few advantages of being on home turf in this kind of situation), you also give the prosecutor (being that this is the Bay Area, the DA will probably prosecute you even for what you consider to be a justified shooting) "ammo" because you are only legally authorized to shoot if you feel your life is in danger. If you have time to fire warning shots or give audible warnings, clearly, you didn't feel all that threatened. If you draw your weapon, you had better be prepared to shoot to kill. Do not aim for the arms/legs or anything short of a lethal shot(s). Aim for center mass, and don't stop shooting until the threat is neutralized, whether it takes 2 shots or 10. If you aren't prepared to take a life, don't draw your weapon. It may do more harm than good. The first "noise" an intruder hears should be your firearm discharging, period.
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Motorcycle Tires

Lurk

iTrader: (10)

I agree. Glocks IMO are the perfect combat pistol. They run 100% out of the box and are tough as nails. Perfect for 95% of people out there looking for a home defense pistol. It'll always work when you need it to.

However, if you have some money laying around to spend on tweaking a 1911, I suggest you go with that route. A good 1911 is like a race car. Meaning, it won't be cheap to build and maintain and it might take a lot of tuning to get it to run the way you want it to. But when it's finally perfect, there's nothing else like it.

Tizzo27

Not only burglars brake into houses.. Could be anyone.

I'd prefer the Crackhead but would rather be prepared for the armed robbery/murder.

Either way I think a rifle/shotgun is the way to go. Might also want to get a set of electronic earphones and put em next to your gun. A suppressor/muffler would be better but again this being California......

Spoolin415

iTrader: (4)

Maybe.

If you're on the second level of your home and someone is advancing up the stairs I think its safe to say your life is in danger. Are you going to jump out of a 2nd floor window?

I agree on the lethal force and warning shots, but the audible racking of a shotgun should be utilized. I don't think most people want to shoot someone, this could also be a good way to determine the threat level approaching you. Its your home so you have the advantage of knowing where you are, you know the line of sights and not many home invaders are going to know advanced home clearing techniques. If you stay put in your current room and allow him to come to you, through a doorway, that should be game over for him.

Its easy to play armchair quarterback with stuff like this, but in the end you do whats necessary to survive, even if its not 'textbook'.

"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Über STi

iTrader: (2)

This will be my first thread reply, but I feel that I have something to contribute:

I couldn't agree more about spending some quality time at a range that rents guns. Target Masters is great for that. Get a feel for the different brands, calibers and revolver v. auto. You'll find a gun that is "right" for you. Chances are that you are NOT going to be staging a firefight in your home. So, 6 rds, 8 rds or 10 rds is moot. Putting two rds center mass, with just about any caliber, will solve the immediate problem. If you're living in a 'hood that has more than three bg's coming through the door - MOVE!

Second, once you find a gun that you like, look around for used/surplus. If it's not some oddball model/brand you should be able to find a good unit that will cost about 40-50% of retail. That will allow you to buy more gun for the buck. Take it to a gunsmith before you buy. You should be doing a transfer anyway, so have them take a look at it wore signs of wear or abuse.

Third, Hollywood gun use includes racking a round into the chamber before use. They even show people that have to shoot for a living carrying an unloaded gun. That, my friend, is f***in' bull$*!t. That's like leaving your gas tank dry when you need to drive somewhere. If you look at movies and tv from the standpoint of proper and appropriate gun use, the bada$$es, e.g. Insp. Harry Callahan, John McClane, Martin Riggs, etc, do not carry/keep unloaded weapons at the ready. In fact, it makes them "scary" because they're ready to go. Scary=Good. Scary=Alive.

Last, when you finally settle on a brand/model/type of firearm, put 1000 rounds though it in the first month of ownership. You'll have a much better chance of success if you have to shoot in anger. It's a little like learning to drive a new car. Only the foolish expect to hop in the driver's seat and set the track record on the first lap.

Good Luck and enjoy. I hope you never have to "defend" yourself.

brucelee

iTrader: (6)

Glock 21, or Glock 21SF, no pistol comes near the overall performance of this pistol. You have the reliability, the accuracy, the capacity, and the stopping power of .45. Now that the slim frame model is out, people with smaller hands can handle the G21 too.

Honestly the best pistol I've ever fired, so great that I'm buying a second one so I can have two... I've fired a LOT of guns in my life, and used to be an HK fanboy, but after many disappointing incidents, I switched to GLOCK and never turned back. Also, you really can't beat the reliability of a Glock... Every pistol will hiccup at some point, but for a Glock to hiccup is very rare. Its basically the AK-47 of the pistol world.

If I had to pick a single pistol that I could keep for the rest of my life as my ONLY pistol, it'd be the G21 without a single second of thought. There are many glock models, something for everyone. I do NOT recommend a .22 for home defense!

LICmotorsports

iTrader: (10)

you're correct, and I used to own that one as well (Original post updated, thank you)

and in response to if I'm a freak or a liar, lets go shooting...I'll out shoot my G23 w/ my G26 any day of the week.

but then again my G26 has some "work" done to it

-Noah

kyoung05

iTrader: (2)

I meant you'd have to be either a freak or a liar to outshoot the G23 with a G29 (as per your original post), i.e. I find it highly unlikely that you'd be able to shoot a subcompact 10mm better than a compact .40. I find it highly believable that the G26 can outshoot the G23. The G26 is one of the most accurate Glocks, right up there with the G30. Something about those subcompacts - I gotta get me one one of these days - maybe the G30SF, but then what would I do with my 1911?
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Mexico Hotels

LICmotorsports

iTrader: (10)

I agree with ya!

I love 1911's, especially the older colts (although they are more collectors to me than shooters)

everyone raves about colts (in all honesty they are really loose guns BUT do some work to them and they are be just as great as a Kimber).

ahh so many good guns out there and so many f-ed up laws in cali...hey I guess that's what we wanted, I mean afterall this is a democratic state.

-Noah

kyoung05

iTrader: (2)

What's with all these people being on Kimber's nuts? I thought that most people avoid Kimbers like the plague due to their MIM parts and funky external extractors. Personally, I'd take a Springfield over a Kimber just because of those 2 issues - in fact, I did. If I had enough disposable income, I'd probably send my 1911 to Ted Yost for the complete package. Either that, or get a Les Baer TRS or an Ed Brown.
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Masturbation hand