Open Carry
11-19-2009, 02:27 PM
#31
The whole 'openly armed citizens deter criminals' thing only works if there are more openly armed good guys than bad guys. Provided, that is, if the good guys even have their sidearms loaded. sure it takes a couple or seconds to slap a magazine into a sidearm.
but then again, IIRC, the first 2 cops that the animal lovell mixon killed, was surprised and didnt have their sidearm drawn...
11-19-2009, 02:56 PM
#32
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I disagree with you on a few parts, and I do disagree on the handcuffing part as that has already been thru court down in San Diego and the courts found the police did not have the right to cuff someone just for UOC'ing.
But for the most part I will say im impressed with your post
But for the most part I will say im impressed with your post
like i said, im always willing to share information if your willing to discuss =)
11-19-2009, 03:36 PM
#33
do you think these UOC people dont have magazines ready to load with them?
sure it takes a couple or seconds to slap a magazine into a sidearm.
but then again, IIRC, the first 2 cops that the animal lovell mixon killed, was surprised and didnt have their sidearm drawn...
sure it takes a couple or seconds to slap a magazine into a sidearm.
but then again, IIRC, the first 2 cops that the animal lovell mixon killed, was surprised and didnt have their sidearm drawn...
I'm sure the UOC people have loaded magazines on their person, but the element of surprise is hard to top. Which is why I stand by my original contention of CCW or nothing, for me personally of course. I couldn't care less if some yahoo decides to run around with a unloaded gun on their hip.
11-19-2009, 03:49 PM
#34
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Last time I was down there, the DA let me shoot his carry gun, and I let him take a few mags from my colt 1903 pocket auto, it was amusing because he had never seen one before, and ended up loving it...of course I LOVED his kimber II carry, man I need one soon as I can pay off a few bills.
11-19-2009, 04:25 PM
#35
Point in case. You have officers who are required to train and qualify with their sidearm frequently and look what a few seconds and the element of surprise did there.
I'm sure the UOC people have loaded magazines on their person, but the element of surprise is hard to top. Which is why I stand by my original contention of CCW or nothing, for me personally of course. I couldn't care less if some yahoo decides to run around with a unloaded gun on their hip.
I'm sure the UOC people have loaded magazines on their person, but the element of surprise is hard to top. Which is why I stand by my original contention of CCW or nothing, for me personally of course. I couldn't care less if some yahoo decides to run around with a unloaded gun on their hip.
11-19-2009, 04:38 PM
#36
remember the former CHIEF of SFPD? she hadnt qualified for 5 years!!!!!!!
and i know of a local PD where their union agreement allocates them a box of ammo to train with, each month... but only a few does.
I'm sure the UOC people have loaded magazines on their person, but the element of surprise is hard to top. Which is why I stand by my original contention of CCW or nothing, for me personally of course. I couldn't care less if some yahoo decides to run around with a unloaded gun on their hip.
and the worst case scenario is if you dont have one in the pipe already...
11-19-2009, 05:43 PM
#37
But don't listen to me, I'm such an 'antigunner' I even went as far that shall issue CCW was a factor in my decision on where to move in the next few months.
you sure about that?
remember the former CHIEF of SFPD? she hadnt qualified for 5 years!!!!!!!
and i know of a local PD where their union agreement allocates them a box of ammo to train with, each month... but only a few does.
you think the element of surprise is gone because you CCW? plus, you have a jacket or some other clothing to get out of the way (after all, you are CONCEALED...). worse is if your holster is inside a pocket or a (man) purse.
and the worst case scenario is if you dont have one in the pipe already...
remember the former CHIEF of SFPD? she hadnt qualified for 5 years!!!!!!!
and i know of a local PD where their union agreement allocates them a box of ammo to train with, each month... but only a few does.
you think the element of surprise is gone because you CCW? plus, you have a jacket or some other clothing to get out of the way (after all, you are CONCEALED...). worse is if your holster is inside a pocket or a (man) purse.
and the worst case scenario is if you dont have one in the pipe already...
Again, this is all provided you practice drawing in realistic situations. I agree with you though, there are too many variables to these situations which is why I hate playing armchair QB.
And carrying without one in the chamber is as useless as carrying UOC, IMO.
11-19-2009, 06:12 PM
#39
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I think most of those arguments, however well based in the understanding of our founding fathers, has been disproven so many times now that it is hardly worth discussing.
The US Civil War pretty much demonstrated that even reasonably well-armed militias are no match for national armies at the level the US was over 150 years ago, not to mention where we are today with world superpower status.
More recent incidents like Ruby Ridge and Waco to name but 2 of the most infamous such occurrences, should put to rest any rational person's believing that no matter how many guns they might own they have any chance of standing up against the "powers that be" in the USA, or just about anywhere else in the world.
Not bashing the 2nd amendment or anything- just pointing out how silly it is to think its original intent has any validity in the modern world.
The US Civil War pretty much demonstrated that even reasonably well-armed militias are no match for national armies at the level the US was over 150 years ago, not to mention where we are today with world superpower status.
More recent incidents like Ruby Ridge and Waco to name but 2 of the most infamous such occurrences, should put to rest any rational person's believing that no matter how many guns they might own they have any chance of standing up against the "powers that be" in the USA, or just about anywhere else in the world.
Not bashing the 2nd amendment or anything- just pointing out how silly it is to think its original intent has any validity in the modern world.
11-19-2009, 06:22 PM
#40
So it's "silly" to value freedom in the modern world? Look at what's going on in Iran - do you think the government there could dominate it's people so well if every protestor were armed? Ruby Ridge and Waco and Ed/Elaine Brown etc. were iolated incidents, wherein we all generally felt like it wasn't our problem, so the government did its thing. That's a far cry from something that has already happened in our "modern" world (i.e. the corralling of Jews in **** Germany). So according to your reasoning, we should just do whatever the government says and not believe that we have a right to assert our Constitutionally-protected rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So if the government starts rounding up random groups of people here in the US (modern world example of Japanese and Chinese ethnic Americans), let's just all hop on the bus/train/whatever and chant "Hope and Change!"
A good example of this is with taxes. Almost everyone hates the increases and basic robbery they boil down to when you look at what you give vs. what you get back, but the few who speak out either get thrown in jail or get labeled as nuts.
11-19-2009, 06:56 PM
#41
You have to be careful here. I'm not sure if the law is so clear about this as the magazine can be considered a part of the gun. A speedloader for revolvers would be different, but a magazine is a part of a semi-automatic and bullets loaded in the magazine could, in the legal sense, be construed as bullets loaded in the gun.
unless the cartridge is actually in place where it's ready to fire, then the firearm aint loaded...
for example, you can TAPE the magazine full of ammo to the side of a semi auto, and the people vs clark says that aint loaded...
11-19-2009, 07:55 PM
#42
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While I agree, don't you think Americans have relinquished most of their power to the .gov? Not only that, but take a look at whos around you next time you're out and about. Do you really think you could get the common sheep to take arms and risk giving up their $5 morning latte and comfortable complacency? I'm not holding my breath for any kind of major revolution. On a small scale, possibly, but they would be labeled as 'right wing terrorists' and get squashed by the government. Anything major? Wouldn't bet on it in my lifetime.
A good example of this is with taxes. Almost everyone hates the increases and basic robbery they boil down to when you look at what you give vs. what you get back, but the few who speak out either get thrown in jail or get labeled as nuts.
A good example of this is with taxes. Almost everyone hates the increases and basic robbery they boil down to when you look at what you give vs. what you get back, but the few who speak out either get thrown in jail or get labeled as nuts.
Did you know that you pay a tax on tax, in CA? Just buy some bottled water, only water, and see how much more you have to pay aside from the price of the water itself. It's just outrageous. And I absolutely recognize the issue with income taxes (mainly). Since I now pay more in income taxes than I used to earn, I am disgusted with the amount of waste and notions regarding spending that occurs in the Federal Government on a daily basis. On top of that, they make we wait on their time to get back my 5-figure refund that they owe me from overcharging me throughout the last year, while I am on an absolute deadline (again, on their time) to file a return to them every year. Hello mother****ers, I have to constantly stress for that money, and have to earn my job every SINGLE month, and they just take away SO much of it, and for what? What do I get for all that money taken? I get the promise that more will be taken, because some sell out puppets have perceived it to be their right to enact laws to take away more from people like me.
It is very disheartening that the masses do not know the 16th Amendment, and its impact on all of our lives. It is very troubling, to imagine that most people living in this country do not have a single clue, why the Founding Fathers wanted a revolution. I wonder, as this nonsense continues, what is it going to take? Or must we all suffer the inevitable consequences? People need to read American history, and 20th-century history of all major countries, or at least pick up an Ayn Rand novel. Recognizing this, you're absolutely right - What can I, an individual, do? I did not pick up arms to help defend Ed and Elaine Brown, even though the principle that they were fighting for affects me as well. But at least I know better, and the more it all coalesces, the harder it will be for more and more of us to turn our backs on this dire situation. Call me an optimist.
Last edited by herrjr; 11-19-2009 at 08:28 PM. Reason: clarity
11-19-2009, 10:04 PM
#45
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To be fair, you're allowed to adjust your income tax withholdings so that you don't end up with a huge refund come tax time. You'll get your money with each paycheck instead of waiting an entire year. If you're getting a 5-figure refund for the year, you need to file a new W-4 with your employer.
...It's just outrageous. And I absolutely recognize the issue with income taxes (mainly). Since I now pay more in income taxes than I used to earn, I am disgusted with the amount of waste and notions regarding spending that occurs in the Federal Government on a daily basis. On top of that, they make we wait on their time to get back my 5-figure refund that they owe me from overcharging me throughout the last year, while I am on an absolute deadline (again, on their time) to file a return to them every year. Hello mother****ers, I have to constantly stress for that money, and have to earn my job every SINGLE month, and they just take away SO much of it, and for what? What do I get for all that money taken? I get the promise that more will be taken, because some sell out puppets have perceived it to be their right to enact laws to take away more from people like me...