Martial arts enthusiasts! Learn the Secret Tactics of Lyoto Machida!
03-22-2009, 03:51 PM
#31
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From the people I've interacted with from those camps, I don't recall seeing too many girls. A lot more girls in Muay Thai and full contact karate though, since there's less hugging and rolling around on the floor than in say BJJ or Judo 
Which gym do you train at, if you don't mind me asking? I'm on the lookout for a new place to train these days (once I've recovered from a recent little boo boo ). Thanks!
Which gym do you train at, if you don't mind me asking? I'm on the lookout for a new place to train these days (once I've recovered from a recent little boo boo
). Thanks!
03-22-2009, 05:56 PM
#32
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By the way, on second thought, I do recall seeing 1 Asian girl at Ralph Gracie's on Mission. She looked normal to me, but I never talked to her or anything so who knows, right?
03-22-2009, 08:00 PM
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I like the gym. There are alot of girls that do the Muay Thai, but only two of us that consistently do the Jiu Jitsu. I've tried to talk to the other girls into trying the Jiu Jitsu, but most have no interest in trying, I guess its cause of the whole deal of rolling with sweaty gross guys. I just think its will be great to be able to armbar one of the guys when my technique gets better-it hard to gauge how much I've learned though if anything when I'm always having to roll with people out weighing me by 50-100lbs.
03-22-2009, 08:27 PM
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I like the gym. There are alot of girls that do the Muay Thai, but only two of us that consistently do the Jiu Jitsu. I've tried to talk to the other girls into trying the Jiu Jitsu, but most have no interest in trying, I guess its cause of the whole deal of rolling with sweaty gross guys. I just think its will be great to be able to armbar one of the guys when my technique gets better-it hard to gauge how much I've learned though if anything when I'm always having to roll with people out weighing me by 50-100lbs.
And yes, I have to admit, rolling with someone of the opposite gender can get very awkward very quickly.
03-22-2009, 08:50 PM
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Technically, weight shouldn't matter TOO much on the ground, especially when wearing a gi. If you're getting better against heavier opponents, it's a sign that you're getting better overall anyway.
And yes, I have to admit, rolling with someone of the opposite gender can get very awkward very quickly.
And yes, I have to admit, rolling with someone of the opposite gender can get very awkward very quickly.
04-10-2009, 01:39 PM
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Technically, weight shouldn't matter TOO much on the ground, especially when wearing a gi. If you're getting better against heavier opponents, it's a sign that you're getting better overall anyway.
And yes, I have to admit, rolling with someone of the opposite gender can get very awkward very quickly.
And yes, I have to admit, rolling with someone of the opposite gender can get very awkward very quickly.
It depends how much strength you're using. I've barely got my blue belt and when I power through with intent (I don't do this, of course cause otherwise you don't learn) I can power out of basically all submission attempts by this 110 pound brown belt girl in our class (and I'm not that much heavier, I'm 145. Albiet a gymnast 145)
It's a myth that strength isn't important in grappling. It's very important. In IBJJ tourneys with the point system no. With ADCC, MMA competition formats yes. Strength doesn't matter if it's an untrained person vs. trained person. In that case 110 woman probably WILL beat 200 lb rapist attacker.
But anyone who's been doing it consistently for say a year knows the threats, knows when they are in danger of a submission. In this case, except for very VERY rare instances where submissions are slapped on (example is Eddie Bravo v. Royler Gracie, where most people agree Royler would have won 9 times out of 10) truly slick and unexpectedly, the submissions take strength to finish, and too big of a strength difference means the defender can power out.
Yeah gi chokes are a bit different. But that's why I kind of said a person with a years' of experience so he has enough knowledge to adjust his gameplan to actually avoid opportunities to be collar choked.
04-10-2009, 02:46 PM
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All very valid points.
However, I'd like to interject that when it comes to osaekomi, strong technique can be more vital than just body weight. I rolled with 185 lb judo brown belt, and when he put me in kesagatame it was VICIOUS! I was about 215 at the time and I just couldn't get out from under him 9 times out of 10 (there was one time I just managed to squeeze out the back door from under him, but it took me a good 3 minutes or so; all the black belts were laughing their asses off haha). Same thing happened to me when I rolled with a 160 lb judo black belt; if he ever got mount, I couldn't ever get out from under him no matter what (he later admitted that positional control was his specialty, as it was the specialty of his entire high school team in Kobe). And as we all know, the old adage is "Position before submission"! When I was in the brown belt's kesagatame, I was theoretically wide open for strikes from above, a neck crank, or a brabo choke. In the black belt's mount, I would've been easy pickings with Ezekiel choke (especially with our gi) or a high mount reverse arm bar.
I do agree that strength is a vital part of grappling, but at the same time sound technique is even more essential in my opinion, especially when wearing gi. You state that someone with experience can feel all gi chokes coming, but I'd argue that's like saying an experienced boxer can block every single straight punch that comes his way. I'd also argue that one cannot feel "all" submission attempts coming after one year of experience, especially when wearing a gi since the gi provides so much tugging and friction on the body, even when there are no submissions being attempted.
I'd go so far as to say that always having to "muscle in" submissions is a very white belt way of submitting, although I will also state that at a certain point "muscling out" of a submission becomes a necessary escape for anybody at one time or another. Top class groundfighters are like ghosts: it's like grappling with the air, and yet they're always in a dominant position. In the same way, their submissions are very slick, unlike the typical rookie's methodical mindset of "grab the wrist, scoot the hips, throw the leg over" for an arm bar, for example.
Further, I'd say proper use of body mechanics lessens the need for using strength to finish a submission. A human elbow just can't compete with another human being's hips (unless there's like a 100 pound weight difference, then I'd understand hehe). The reason why we so many professional level matches end with expulsion of strength to lock in a submission is often for 1 of several reasons, the two most common being: 1.) Attempt to submit when the submission is not 100% in, a common occurrence in a live competition with a struggling opponent (in other words, seizing an opportunity before it disappears, even if it's a narrow chance); and 2.) Slipperiness from sweat (a problem that is obviated with gi usage).
So yes, in a "real world" competition application, strength is indeed important. That's why everyone who considers themselves a competitor will spend time to condition their bodies. But at the end of the day, strength takes a back seat to sound technique, since keen technical ability is what it takes to win!
P.S. I'd address the whole "grappling with another person of the opposite sex", but I don't want to offend anybody either. I've a few stories about that too, after all.
However, I'd like to interject that when it comes to osaekomi, strong technique can be more vital than just body weight. I rolled with 185 lb judo brown belt, and when he put me in kesagatame it was VICIOUS! I was about 215 at the time and I just couldn't get out from under him 9 times out of 10 (there was one time I just managed to squeeze out the back door from under him, but it took me a good 3 minutes or so; all the black belts were laughing their asses off haha). Same thing happened to me when I rolled with a 160 lb judo black belt; if he ever got mount, I couldn't ever get out from under him no matter what (he later admitted that positional control was his specialty, as it was the specialty of his entire high school team in Kobe). And as we all know, the old adage is "Position before submission"! When I was in the brown belt's kesagatame, I was theoretically wide open for strikes from above, a neck crank, or a brabo choke. In the black belt's mount, I would've been easy pickings with Ezekiel choke (especially with our gi) or a high mount reverse arm bar.
I do agree that strength is a vital part of grappling, but at the same time sound technique is even more essential in my opinion, especially when wearing gi. You state that someone with experience can feel all gi chokes coming, but I'd argue that's like saying an experienced boxer can block every single straight punch that comes his way. I'd also argue that one cannot feel "all" submission attempts coming after one year of experience, especially when wearing a gi since the gi provides so much tugging and friction on the body, even when there are no submissions being attempted.
I'd go so far as to say that always having to "muscle in" submissions is a very white belt way of submitting, although I will also state that at a certain point "muscling out" of a submission becomes a necessary escape for anybody at one time or another. Top class groundfighters are like ghosts: it's like grappling with the air, and yet they're always in a dominant position. In the same way, their submissions are very slick, unlike the typical rookie's methodical mindset of "grab the wrist, scoot the hips, throw the leg over" for an arm bar, for example.
Further, I'd say proper use of body mechanics lessens the need for using strength to finish a submission. A human elbow just can't compete with another human being's hips (unless there's like a 100 pound weight difference, then I'd understand hehe). The reason why we so many professional level matches end with expulsion of strength to lock in a submission is often for 1 of several reasons, the two most common being: 1.) Attempt to submit when the submission is not 100% in, a common occurrence in a live competition with a struggling opponent (in other words, seizing an opportunity before it disappears, even if it's a narrow chance); and 2.) Slipperiness from sweat (a problem that is obviated with gi usage).
So yes, in a "real world" competition application, strength is indeed important. That's why everyone who considers themselves a competitor will spend time to condition their bodies. But at the end of the day, strength takes a back seat to sound technique, since keen technical ability is what it takes to win!
P.S. I'd address the whole "grappling with another person of the opposite sex", but I don't want to offend anybody either. I've a few stories about that too, after all.
It depends how much strength you're using. I've barely got my blue belt and when I power through with intent (I don't do this, of course cause otherwise you don't learn) I can power out of basically all submission attempts by this 110 pound brown belt girl in our class (and I'm not that much heavier, I'm 145. Albiet a gymnast 145)
It's a myth that strength isn't important in grappling. It's very important. In IBJJ tourneys with the point system no. With ADCC, MMA competition formats yes. Strength doesn't matter if it's an untrained person vs. trained person. In that case 110 woman probably WILL beat 200 lb rapist attacker.
But anyone who's been doing it consistently for say a year knows the threats, knows when they are in danger of a submission. In this case, except for very VERY rare instances where submissions are slapped on (example is Eddie Bravo v. Royler Gracie, where most people agree Royler would have won 9 times out of 10) truly slick and unexpectedly, the submissions take strength to finish, and too big of a strength difference means the defender can power out.
Yeah gi chokes are a bit different. But that's why I kind of said a person with a years' of experience so he has enough knowledge to adjust his gameplan to actually avoid opportunities to be collar choked.
It's a myth that strength isn't important in grappling. It's very important. In IBJJ tourneys with the point system no. With ADCC, MMA competition formats yes. Strength doesn't matter if it's an untrained person vs. trained person. In that case 110 woman probably WILL beat 200 lb rapist attacker.
But anyone who's been doing it consistently for say a year knows the threats, knows when they are in danger of a submission. In this case, except for very VERY rare instances where submissions are slapped on (example is Eddie Bravo v. Royler Gracie, where most people agree Royler would have won 9 times out of 10) truly slick and unexpectedly, the submissions take strength to finish, and too big of a strength difference means the defender can power out.
Yeah gi chokes are a bit different. But that's why I kind of said a person with a years' of experience so he has enough knowledge to adjust his gameplan to actually avoid opportunities to be collar choked.
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