Maniac in Brazil mows down 150 bicyclists
<--- Overbear
.... .... .... .... ... .... ^rooftop^
02-28-2011, 12:48 PM
#64
He's pleading self defence.
"The driver of the car filmed ploughing in to a group of cyclists on a Critical Mass ride in Porto Alegre in south eastern Brazil last Friday acted in the self defence of himself and his 15 year old son his lawyer told the Brazilian media today.
Ricardo José Neis an official of the Brazilian central bank handed himself in to the Porto Alegre police who have been looking for him since they recovered the car involved in the incident and identified Neis as the owner on Friday night. Luis Fernando Coimbra Albino the lawyer representing Neis told the Zero Hora newspaper that his client had his 15 year old son in the car with him and felt threatened by what he alleges was aggressive behaviour by the cyclists who he says banged on the car roof, Neis, says his lawyer feared that the cyclists would turn the car over.
"He felt cornered, he acted to protect his son who was in the car", said Albino.
Questioned as to how his client sought to refute the damning video evidence against him, Albino claimed that videos only show part of what happened:
"The images are powerful, but show only from a certain point, when he had started the confusion [sic]. They do not show the aggression that led him to flee"
Mr Albino may have his work cut out to make this defence stick all the films of the ride so far show a far from aggressive group of cyclists comprising many women, old people, children and even a lady with a dog on a trailer. Indeed, while the driver's alleged concern for the safety of his child is commendable any concern for the safety of children does not appear to extend to the children of others – a young boy can quite clearly be seen at 0:58 in the longer of the videos of the incident just feet from the front of the car as it is driven through the group of cyclists. Neis's concern doesn't extend to women either a number of whom he ran down in the incident. Far from being aggresive the cyclists in both films seem good humoured and don't appear to be holding up traffic to any great degree. There were also numerous witnesses to the incident both cyclists taking part in the ride and pedestrians watching it go by.
Indeed one witness had already come forward to say that he had seen the driver of the car acting aggressively towards the riders in from of him before he drove his car through them. Camilo Colling, told the Brazilian website Terra Brasil that he spoke to the driver just before the incident, asking him to be patient and stop behaving aggressively towards the riders in his path and warning him that there were children and older people taking part in the ride ahead. The driver allegedly replied "Yes but I'm in a hurry" before ploughing his car in to the group of cyclists in front of him.
Speaking to Zero Hora Neis's son said that his father had driven through the cyclists after arguing with riders at the back of the group and feeling threatened. According to the lawyer the riders damaged the car smashing windows leading Neis to fear for the safety of himself and his son. You can see a picture of the car here and while it is undoubtedly damaged that damage would seem more consistent with running down 20 cyclists than being attacked by them.
According to Albino contact between himself and his client was mediated through Neis's ex-wife and Neis has not surrendered to the police until now because of his emotional state. His client will co-operate fully with the investigation says Albino. If he is proved to have acted with intent Ricardo Neis may face charges of attempted murder."
"The driver of the car filmed ploughing in to a group of cyclists on a Critical Mass ride in Porto Alegre in south eastern Brazil last Friday acted in the self defence of himself and his 15 year old son his lawyer told the Brazilian media today.
Ricardo José Neis an official of the Brazilian central bank handed himself in to the Porto Alegre police who have been looking for him since they recovered the car involved in the incident and identified Neis as the owner on Friday night. Luis Fernando Coimbra Albino the lawyer representing Neis told the Zero Hora newspaper that his client had his 15 year old son in the car with him and felt threatened by what he alleges was aggressive behaviour by the cyclists who he says banged on the car roof, Neis, says his lawyer feared that the cyclists would turn the car over.
"He felt cornered, he acted to protect his son who was in the car", said Albino.
Questioned as to how his client sought to refute the damning video evidence against him, Albino claimed that videos only show part of what happened:
"The images are powerful, but show only from a certain point, when he had started the confusion [sic]. They do not show the aggression that led him to flee"
Mr Albino may have his work cut out to make this defence stick all the films of the ride so far show a far from aggressive group of cyclists comprising many women, old people, children and even a lady with a dog on a trailer. Indeed, while the driver's alleged concern for the safety of his child is commendable any concern for the safety of children does not appear to extend to the children of others – a young boy can quite clearly be seen at 0:58 in the longer of the videos of the incident just feet from the front of the car as it is driven through the group of cyclists. Neis's concern doesn't extend to women either a number of whom he ran down in the incident. Far from being aggresive the cyclists in both films seem good humoured and don't appear to be holding up traffic to any great degree. There were also numerous witnesses to the incident both cyclists taking part in the ride and pedestrians watching it go by.
Indeed one witness had already come forward to say that he had seen the driver of the car acting aggressively towards the riders in from of him before he drove his car through them. Camilo Colling, told the Brazilian website Terra Brasil that he spoke to the driver just before the incident, asking him to be patient and stop behaving aggressively towards the riders in his path and warning him that there were children and older people taking part in the ride ahead. The driver allegedly replied "Yes but I'm in a hurry" before ploughing his car in to the group of cyclists in front of him.
Speaking to Zero Hora Neis's son said that his father had driven through the cyclists after arguing with riders at the back of the group and feeling threatened. According to the lawyer the riders damaged the car smashing windows leading Neis to fear for the safety of himself and his son. You can see a picture of the car here and while it is undoubtedly damaged that damage would seem more consistent with running down 20 cyclists than being attacked by them.
According to Albino contact between himself and his client was mediated through Neis's ex-wife and Neis has not surrendered to the police until now because of his emotional state. His client will co-operate fully with the investigation says Albino. If he is proved to have acted with intent Ricardo Neis may face charges of attempted murder."
02-28-2011, 01:41 PM
#65
My dad's caused major damage to a biker and his bike when he was stopped in sf so.... yeah, i cant stand bikers esp ones that go over devils slide or 92..... you're using a major road and riding in the middle of it let me tap you from behind? or those bikers that never stop at stop signs and almost hit you, we've came close a few times where ive wanted to slam on the brakes in the middle of the intersection so you can hit me ILLEGALLY.
02-28-2011, 01:41 PM
#66
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I love scenario's.
Lets say this was a group of 150 I-Clubbers demonstrating for gun rights, gasoline, etc. (the cause doesn't matter). The demonstration happens once a month. The group blocks traffic, upsets people, etc. Lets even say that it takes place Berkeley. 10 of the demonstrators are actually really serious about the cause, 50 more are there to support the 10, and the rest are there drunk for the hell of it. A couple of these demonstrators are bad apples, absolute douche bags... inciting shenanigans. All of a sudden some crazed Prius driving hippie drives through the crowd because they either disagree OR they "have somewhere to be"...
See where I am getting at? The movement within itself has GREAT intentions... like moving away from oil dependence, developing cycling awareness, etc.
But at the end of the day none of these people OR the I-Clubbers in my example deserve to be ran over.
I'm not defending the validity or invalidity of CM... rather I was being sarcastic to the fact that most of the comments reflect ignorance by stating that these people deserve it OR **** happens. No one deserves that.
Also, my sarcastic dick like statement reflected the ignorance that has been this board lately when it comes too overall insensitivity towards.. well anything that isn't guns.
Lets say this was a group of 150 I-Clubbers demonstrating for gun rights, gasoline, etc. (the cause doesn't matter). The demonstration happens once a month. The group blocks traffic, upsets people, etc. Lets even say that it takes place Berkeley. 10 of the demonstrators are actually really serious about the cause, 50 more are there to support the 10, and the rest are there drunk for the hell of it. A couple of these demonstrators are bad apples, absolute douche bags... inciting shenanigans. All of a sudden some crazed Prius driving hippie drives through the crowd because they either disagree OR they "have somewhere to be"...
See where I am getting at? The movement within itself has GREAT intentions... like moving away from oil dependence, developing cycling awareness, etc.
But at the end of the day none of these people OR the I-Clubbers in my example deserve to be ran over.
I'm not defending the validity or invalidity of CM... rather I was being sarcastic to the fact that most of the comments reflect ignorance by stating that these people deserve it OR **** happens. No one deserves that.
Also, my sarcastic dick like statement reflected the ignorance that has been this board lately when it comes too overall insensitivity towards.. well anything that isn't guns.
You stated that the idea behind the cause is valid so that justifies them acting this way. That would be illogical at best and plain deranged at worse. There are literally thousands of other forums to push for a cause other than taking out your agenda on the public that frankly, has their own problems to deal with. If gays were to go out and lay down in traffic in hopes of legalizing gay marriage does that mean that they deserve to be run over? NO! Am I surprised or sympathetic that it happened. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Its not different than me going into my garage and dosing my body in gasoline and going into the backyard and lighting fireworks. Do I deserve to burn to death? I don't think so. Will it be surprising if it happens?
02-28-2011, 02:28 PM
#67
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As terrible as that is, don't tell me you've never been tempted to do the same? lol I was in SF during CM and I wanted to run every mother f'er over. I wish I had a tank.
<---- Cyclist, just not a POS CM cyclist. I obey the road laws and cars always have the right away.
<---- Cyclist, just not a POS CM cyclist. I obey the road laws and cars always have the right away.
Not every movement is as peaceful or as positive as others. More kids are on bikes because they see the CM riders as rebels and they want to be the same way. Should a person look up to a crazy CM rider. No. Does it have potential to take a car off the road in place of a bike? Yes. There you have a positive act resulting from a negative idea. Less smog is good. We can argue if the end justifies the means... but that wouldn't solve anything.
It just seems to me that there is a general since of disdain for cyclists in this thread and by many users of this forum. Like when users talk about cyclists passing them in traffic and being pissed about it. Really? You're pissed that they are in the road? Well ask SFPD to do there JOBS and not allow UPS, FEDEX, and everyone else to double park in the bike lanes downtown, which is ILLEGAL.
If you ask me, the whole anti-car cycling movement stemmed from road rage incidents between cars and bikes. Cars want to own the road because "I'm bigger than your bike. I should have the right away" attitude. If you have been to Europe you will notice that in most cities there are very adequate bike lanes in the major cities. These help to decrease these incidents and make the roads safer for EVERYONE.
Bikes are not going away and drivers need to realize this. Riding a bike in a city like SF is dangerous... and it is often safer for everyone if the riders disobey the law.
One last thing... I would like to again point out how insane BL is by thinking it is okay to ASSAULT a cyclist for ALLEGEDLY scratching his friends car. Call the cops. Get him arrested. You are not the court of law. These "I'm above the law" acts happen from CM riders AND drivers like BL.
*Disclaimer* - I want to reiterate like I did earlier that I am not really trying to defend CM. I am trying to defend the idea that an illegal act doesn't justify an illegal and/or violent act. That no one deserves that kind of violence.
02-28-2011, 02:42 PM
#68
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One last thing... I would like to again point out how insane BL is by thinking it is okay to ASSAULT a cyclist for ALLEGEDLY scratching his friends car. Call the cops. Get him arrested. You are not the court of law. These "I'm above the law" acts happen from CM riders AND drivers like BL.
*Disclaimer* - I want to reiterate like I did earlier that I am not really trying to defend CM. I am trying to defend the idea that an illegal act doesn't justify an illegal and/or violent act. That no one deserves that kind of violence.
*Disclaimer* - I want to reiterate like I did earlier that I am not really trying to defend CM. I am trying to defend the idea that an illegal act doesn't justify an illegal and/or violent act. That no one deserves that kind of violence.
I was rased in that invornment, I was taught its ok to stand up for yourself, and if someone gets a bloody nose, OH NO, poor person, boo ****ign hoo. I dont get people like you man, that cant stand up for themselves and have to run screaming to the cops rather than deal with your own problems.
Violence IS somtimes the right and just answer.
02-28-2011, 02:46 PM
#69
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To 1reguL8NSTi:
Not every movement is as peaceful or as positive as others. More kids are on bikes because they see the CM riders as rebels and they want to be the same way. Should a person look up to a crazy CM rider. No. Does it have potential to take a car off the road in place of a bike? Yes. There you have a positive act resulting from a negative idea. Less smog is good. We can argue if the end justifies the means... but that wouldn't solve anything.
Not every movement is as peaceful or as positive as others. More kids are on bikes because they see the CM riders as rebels and they want to be the same way. Should a person look up to a crazy CM rider. No. Does it have potential to take a car off the road in place of a bike? Yes. There you have a positive act resulting from a negative idea. Less smog is good. We can argue if the end justifies the means... but that wouldn't solve anything.
No. There is a general sense of disdain in this forum for idiots who think they can circumvent the law under the guise of being social/environmental active. What's worse is these people actually believe there are within their rights to inconvenience others and even go as far as to damage others property. This is senseless and does nothing for their cause. I'm all for the right to assemble publicly. But it shouldn't come at a cost to others. Especially when people are intentionally assembling in order to cause a ruckus/confrontation. The people on this forum simply feel that if you want to bring the thunder sometimes you have to feel the rain.
02-28-2011, 03:45 PM
#72
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Violence is sometimes the right and just answer, and is exactly why critical mass has turned into a hated ****-show. Bikers are tired of getting hit, drivers are tired of being inconvenienced by bikes.
As someone who rides a bike as primary transportation, I am not surprised by this thread. People have a false sense of entitlement behind the wheel, and in my opinion don't generally treat bicyclists with the respect that they should.
My bike weighs 255 lbs with me on it and has two legpower.
Your car weighs anywhere from 2700 to 9000 lbs and has more horsepower than the golden gate fields stables.
It's not difficult to share the road and unfortunately smegma from both sides attracts zealots like overbear, who enjoy spouting off about vigilante justice towards whoever and whatever.
Sorry that I slow your trip to the grocery store by 10 seconds because you can't pass RIGHT AWAY.
I'm on a BIKE. It's treated like an automobile by law, but when you only need to replace your windshield because my head went through it, I'll need 200k in healthcare bills. I choose to break traffic laws on my bike, and when I do my wallet is in danger. When I (and anyone else) chooses to break traffic laws in a car, people's lives are in danger.
All those supporting the actions of this psycho in Brazil need to spend some real seat time on a bike in traffic.
As someone who rides a bike as primary transportation, I am not surprised by this thread. People have a false sense of entitlement behind the wheel, and in my opinion don't generally treat bicyclists with the respect that they should.
My bike weighs 255 lbs with me on it and has two legpower.
Your car weighs anywhere from 2700 to 9000 lbs and has more horsepower than the golden gate fields stables.
It's not difficult to share the road and unfortunately smegma from both sides attracts zealots like overbear, who enjoy spouting off about vigilante justice towards whoever and whatever.
Sorry that I slow your trip to the grocery store by 10 seconds because you can't pass RIGHT AWAY.
I'm on a BIKE. It's treated like an automobile by law, but when you only need to replace your windshield because my head went through it, I'll need 200k in healthcare bills. I choose to break traffic laws on my bike, and when I do my wallet is in danger. When I (and anyone else) chooses to break traffic laws in a car, people's lives are in danger.
All those supporting the actions of this psycho in Brazil need to spend some real seat time on a bike in traffic.
02-28-2011, 04:03 PM
#73
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Then you might as well call me insane too. I see NO problem with kicking someones *** for scratching my car. There was a day when you would mix it up, someone got their *** kicked, and that was the end of it.
I was rased in that invornment, I was taught its ok to stand up for yourself, and if someone gets a bloody nose, OH NO, poor person, boo ****ign hoo. I dont get people like you man, that cant stand up for themselves and have to run screaming to the cops rather than deal with your own problems.
Violence IS somtimes the right and just answer.
I was rased in that invornment, I was taught its ok to stand up for yourself, and if someone gets a bloody nose, OH NO, poor person, boo ****ign hoo. I dont get people like you man, that cant stand up for themselves and have to run screaming to the cops rather than deal with your own problems.
Violence IS somtimes the right and just answer.
BL didn't know if the guy scratched his friends car. He may have thrown this guys bike off of the cliff for NO REASON. The guy wouldn't admit anything... maybe because he didn't do anything? We don't know because BL thought he was above the law... and now you potentially have a kid that wants to **** with all Subaru owners because of unwarranted hate.
And back to the point I was getting at originally...
Nothing makes it okay to run over a group of cyclists. No one "has that coming to them". It is narrow minded to think in that manner.
02-28-2011, 04:05 PM
#74
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violence is sometimes the right and just answer, and is exactly why critical mass has turned into a hated ****-show. Bikers are tired of getting hit, drivers are tired of being inconvenienced by bikes.
As someone who rides a bike as primary transportation, i am not surprised by this thread. People have a false sense of entitlement behind the wheel, and in my opinion don't generally treat bicyclists with the respect that they should.
My bike weighs 255 lbs with me on it and has two legpower.
Your car weighs anywhere from 2700 to 9000 lbs and has more horsepower than the golden gate fields stables.
It's not difficult to share the road and unfortunately smegma from both sides attracts zealots like overbear, who enjoy spouting off about vigilante justice towards whoever and whatever.
Sorry that i slow your trip to the grocery store by 10 seconds because you can't pass right away.
I'm on a bike. It's treated like an automobile by law, but when you only need to replace your windshield because my head went through it, i'll need 200k in healthcare bills. I choose to break traffic laws on my bike, and when i do my wallet is in danger. When i (and anyone else) chooses to break traffic laws in a car, people's lives are in danger.
All those supporting the actions of this psycho in brazil need to spend some real seat time on a bike in traffic.
As someone who rides a bike as primary transportation, i am not surprised by this thread. People have a false sense of entitlement behind the wheel, and in my opinion don't generally treat bicyclists with the respect that they should.
My bike weighs 255 lbs with me on it and has two legpower.
Your car weighs anywhere from 2700 to 9000 lbs and has more horsepower than the golden gate fields stables.
It's not difficult to share the road and unfortunately smegma from both sides attracts zealots like overbear, who enjoy spouting off about vigilante justice towards whoever and whatever.
Sorry that i slow your trip to the grocery store by 10 seconds because you can't pass right away.
I'm on a bike. It's treated like an automobile by law, but when you only need to replace your windshield because my head went through it, i'll need 200k in healthcare bills. I choose to break traffic laws on my bike, and when i do my wallet is in danger. When i (and anyone else) chooses to break traffic laws in a car, people's lives are in danger.
All those supporting the actions of this psycho in brazil need to spend some real seat time on a bike in traffic.
02-28-2011, 05:16 PM
#75
Violence is sometimes the right and just answer, and is exactly why critical mass has turned into a hated ****-show. Bikers are tired of getting hit, drivers are tired of being inconvenienced by bikes.
As someone who rides a bike as primary transportation, I am not surprised by this thread. People have a false sense of entitlement behind the wheel, and in my opinion don't generally treat bicyclists with the respect that they should.
My bike weighs 255 lbs with me on it and has two legpower.
Your car weighs anywhere from 2700 to 9000 lbs and has more horsepower than the golden gate fields stables.
It's not difficult to share the road and unfortunately smegma from both sides attracts zealots like overbear, who enjoy spouting off about vigilante justice towards whoever and whatever.
Sorry that I slow your trip to the grocery store by 10 seconds because you can't pass RIGHT AWAY.
I'm on a BIKE. It's treated like an automobile by law, but when you only need to replace your windshield because my head went through it, I'll need 200k in healthcare bills. I choose to break traffic laws on my bike, and when I do my wallet is in danger. When I (and anyone else) chooses to break traffic laws in a car, people's lives are in danger.
All those supporting the actions of this psycho in Brazil need to spend some real seat time on a bike in traffic.
As someone who rides a bike as primary transportation, I am not surprised by this thread. People have a false sense of entitlement behind the wheel, and in my opinion don't generally treat bicyclists with the respect that they should.
My bike weighs 255 lbs with me on it and has two legpower.
Your car weighs anywhere from 2700 to 9000 lbs and has more horsepower than the golden gate fields stables.
It's not difficult to share the road and unfortunately smegma from both sides attracts zealots like overbear, who enjoy spouting off about vigilante justice towards whoever and whatever.
Sorry that I slow your trip to the grocery store by 10 seconds because you can't pass RIGHT AWAY.
I'm on a BIKE. It's treated like an automobile by law, but when you only need to replace your windshield because my head went through it, I'll need 200k in healthcare bills. I choose to break traffic laws on my bike, and when I do my wallet is in danger. When I (and anyone else) chooses to break traffic laws in a car, people's lives are in danger.
All those supporting the actions of this psycho in Brazil need to spend some real seat time on a bike in traffic.
Its a double edge sword. The "car drivers" arnt pefect, and the "bike riders" sure arnt either, even tho they act innocent most of the time.
When was the last time you (or anyone here) saw a person on a bike (besides a 12 year old without a helmet) getting pulled over and cited for breaking a traffic law? Im not saying it doesnt happen, but sure as **** not as offten as cars get pulled over and ticketed.