Originally Posted by dorifto88

i can kind of one up you with the death of Darrell "Shifty" Powers.

"Shifty volunteered for the airborne in WWII and served with Easy
Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 101st Airborne Infantry. If you've seen Band of Brothers on HBO or the History Channel, you know Shifty. His character appears in all 10 episodes, and Shifty himself is interviewed in several of them.

I met Shifty in the Philadelphia airport several years ago. I didn't
know who he was at the time. I just saw an elderly gentleman having trouble reading his ticket. I offered to help, assured him that he was at the right gate, and noticed the "Screaming Eagle", the symbol of the 101st Airborne, on his hat. Making conversation, I asked him if he'd been in the 101st Airborne or if his son was serving. He said quietly that he had been in the 101st. I thanked him for his service, then asked him when he served, and how many jumps he made. Quietly and humbly, he said "Well, I guess I signed up in 1941 or so, and was in until sometime in 1945 . . . " at which point my heart skipped. At that point, again, very humbly, he said "I made the 5 training jumps at Toccoa, and then jumped into Normandy . . . . do you
know where Normandy is?" At this point my heart stopped.
I told him yes, I know exactly where Normandy was, and I know what D-Day was. At that point he said "I also made a second jump into Holland , into Arnhem ." I was standing with a genuine war hero . . . and then I realized that it was June, just after the anniversary of D-Day. I asked Shifty if he was on his way back from France , and he said "Yes. And it's real sad because these days so few of the guys are left, and those that are, lots of them can't make the trip." My heart was in my throat and I didn't know what to say.



I helped Shifty get onto the plane and then realized he was back in Coach, while I was in First Class. I sent the flight attendant back to get him and said that I wanted to switch seats. When Shifty came forward, I got up out of the seat and told him I wanted him to have it, that I'd take his in coach. He said "No, son, you enjoy that seat. Just knowing that there are still some who remember what we did and still care is enough to make an old man very happy.." His eyes were filling up as he said it. And mine are brimming up now as I write this. Shifty died on June 17 after fighting cancer."

Originally Posted by slow04wrx

I don't mean to be a jerk, I have family in the military.

But technically for arguments sake, this guy saved this mid sized group of people, but that didn't really affect the rest of the world. MJ not only changed music in a worldwide way , but you know his hunderds of millions of $ to charities, combined with the fact he spent a lot of his life fundraising and doing humanitarian work.........pretty sure as a single person he did more good than the whole vietnam war for the future of america, and he spent most of his life doing it despite being rich.....................kinda funny.......

you just glorify a war hero, I mean sure the guy may be brave, but he saved 130 soldiers who shouldn't have been there in the first place........

Saving 30 people who are in a country to kill people, is a brave thing, but it doesn't do jack in the scheme of things for the people of america, except those few directly linked.

so my point is I think he earned the right of hero as well........regardless of all the bad press he gets.

Originally Posted by slow04wrx

I don't mean to be a jerk, I have family in the military.

But technically for arguments sake, this guy saved this mid sized group of people, but that didn't really affect the rest of the world. MJ not only changed music in a worldwide way , but you know his hunderds of millions of $ to charities, combined with the fact he spent a lot of his life fundraising and doing humanitarian work.........pretty sure as a single person he did more good than the whole vietnam war for the future of america, and he spent most of his life doing it despite being rich.....................kinda funny.......

you just glorify a war hero, I mean sure the guy may be brave, but he saved 30 soldiers who shouldn't have been there in the first place........

Saving 30 people who are in a country to kill people, is a brave thing, but it doesn't do jack in the scheme of things for the people of america, except those few directly linked.

so my point is I think he earned the right of hero as well........regardless of all the bad press he gets, its not like we really knew the guy so I guess its hard to say.

Originally Posted by Spoolin415

C'mon. Are you going to put MJ's humanitarian dollars up against a totally selfless act of bravery which included no concern for his own life, just his fallen soldiers?

And lets not get into 'shouldn't have been there nonsense. History is written and that in no way cheapens the hell those guys went through or the subsequent bravery some of them displayed.

Originally Posted by sigma pi

yup like i said

unpopular war

Originally Posted by slow04wrx

yeah I think the guy saved people and spent a day doing his helicopter saving, which is truly impressive don't get me wrong..........but he spent 1 day? should he really be idolized that much?

Yes, he could have cut tail and run the other way, or balled up and accepted death. He didn't have to do what he did, in fact, I think most of us would be concerned about numero uno in any life or death situation.

I mean do you really think michael jacksons hunderds of millions and not just his money but his continued humanitarian work throughout his life......................................

Thats great he spent some of his earnings. I just don't think it displays the patriotism or valor as putting your own life on the line just to save a few others. Which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't much. Which makes what he did all the more admirable.

I mean when you are trapped in vietnam and everyone is dying around you what choice do you have........................

Bravery or cowardice. Theres always a choice.

michael jackson chose to spend his time this way..........I think theres something to be said for that, also the fact he is helping random people...............not just his buddies...........

Thats fine, nothing wrong with that.

also at the same time the guy was over there killing people..................

Irrelevant.

michael jackson didn't .................................................. ......I could see how michael could be a bigger hero for the people.

Also irrelevant.

no need to dry and demean jackson in service of this guy...........thats my point

Until MJ commits an act like this man did, hes behind him in line. Sitting on your couch and writing checks is a little different than dodging bullets for a few guys who in any other situation would be dead.

Originally Posted by Spoolin415

Which address a fundamental problem with our media. They should be reporting factual, unbiased news. It was a unpopular war, BFD, its done and over with and regardless of its position in our collective memory, the people who were doing their job should not allowed to be 2nd class to a singer simply because some people have a bad taste in their mouth over war motives.

Originally Posted by Spoolin415

Which address a fundamental problem with our media. They should be reporting factual, unbiased news. It was a unpopular war, BFD, its done and over with and regardless of its position in our collective memory, the people who were doing their job should not allowed to be 2nd class to a singer simply because some people have a bad taste in their mouth over war motives.

Originally Posted by slow04wrx

Yeah sorry pal but I feel completely different. First of all no one called them second class, the guy didn't spend his whole life helping people or give 500 million bucks, simple as that. Get over it. Theres a lot of war heros who fought in vietnam.

Here is a huge problem we need to address. Yea the government totally ****ed the people on going to vietnam, and it was a total disaster all around...........................so because some guy saved 30 people we are suppose to FORGET the TRUTH, and start idolizing and praising this horrible war where 100's of thousands of people were killed for nothing other than differing opinions with someone whom who never even met?..........

yea thats what I could call UNamerican and a fundamental problem. I mean we aren't a communist nation that needs to lie to our people........which is what happened...............

and now you want to celebrate it instead of be disgusted?

The men i've met that were in nam, didn't seem to happy or proud of the situation as a whole.

I don't have a bad taste in my guys mouth to this motive thats total bs. The guy probably didn't have a choice to go to vietnam, do you know if he even wanted to go there? if he agrees at this point that we still should have gone?? no you don't so.........................people have the right to question the motives of our government at the time...........

the bad taste left in my mouth was from the government. It doesn't change what the man did, but it also doesn't make it more than it was, he saved 30 people............thats awesome...............but he wasn't part of a bigger picture of good.

Originally Posted by dorifto88

i had to put in the quotations because it wasnt me, but my best friends father who met Shifty.

still, the deaths of anyone in the military deserves to be honored... irregardless of what their actions contributed to

Originally Posted by Spoolin415

We're not talking about the government, or the reasons given for the war.

We're discussing one man's bravery on the battlefield. Separate them and rejoin this discussion.