Just in case you didn't know... the Carpool lane isn't the freakin Autobahn...
04-26-2009, 07:36 PM
#63
aka FlukeWRX
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Plus most Prics drivers, I mean Prius drivers are usually a-holes to begin with. Last summer while carpooling from SJO on 880N some douche and his wife were tailgating me while in my STi. I hella brake checked him and he nearly hit my ****, then found a small hole swung 2 lanes over tot he right and then proceeded to cut off my safety barrier of 2 to 3 cars by squeezing himself in front of me right where 880N carpool lane ends anyways. What a dumas! Had I not had my friends mom and grandma in the car with me I would of played the high beam and hinking game with them, but oh well. I was going 75 at the time too, that is what was so maddening!
-Gio
-Gio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMe3WDmxBEI
I'd prefer to just show the video here, but not sure how to do it, so only a link for now.
Last edited by JelloChex; 04-26-2009 at 08:10 PM.
04-26-2009, 07:54 PM
#64
aka FlukeWRX
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If you are going 15 mph or 150 mph it makes no difference if there is nothing in front of your vehicle that is causing you to stop or decelerate to a slower speed. It is the objects in the road ahead of the car that dictate the speed at which you can travel safely as well as the car itself and the accessories the car is equipped with: tires, brakes, etc. Those objects could be: other cars, walls, barriers, people, animal, random objects, pot holes, etc. While true, that some older or more underpowered cars are limited in the speeds they travel that doesn't mean that by them doing 65 mph (or whatever the speed limit is) that they are any safer than your vehicle also doing 65 mph. In fact both vehicles traveling the same speed can in fact have 1 vehicle traveling safely at that speed, while the other is not traveling safely at the same speed.
Example - Your car may be equipped with sticker tires or better brakes or anything else that can help you declerate quickly in case of an upcoming object hindering your forward motion. If the person behind you is not paying attention or did not leave a safe distance between you and them or maybe just is unable to stop as quickly as you due to different braking distances, then they can still be involved in a collision because they were unable to avoid you even though both of you were traveling the speed limit to begin with.
You could also think of it like this. I have heard people say "Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people." Yes and no. If I pick up a bullet and throw it at you, unless I for some reason have an extremely lucky shot, chances are it won't hurt you as I can't put enough velocity behind it to really do the ensuing damage. Now load a bullet into a hand gun and stand 10 feet from the person and fire at them. As long as you hit the target the chances of it doing damage have dramatically increased to where damage or even death can occur depending on where the target is hit. Now go stand 10 miles from the target and fire a bullet from that same hand gun at the target. Now the chances of doing damage have dramatically dropped again. The bullet still travels at the same high speed when fired from the gun yet the person does not sustain injury. The reason being that the bullet when fired still had sufficient time to declerate or stop before ever reaching the intended target.
Last edited by JelloChex; 04-26-2009 at 08:03 PM.
04-27-2009, 10:44 AM
#67
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It is not the speed that kills though. It is the obstacle in front of the object that is unavoided and the ensuing collision that causes injury or death. It is not like once someone drives 80 mph they all of a sudden just die. If they did die just by going that particular speed there was something else wrong with them to begin with.
If you are going 15 mph or 150 mph it makes no difference if there is nothing in front of your vehicle that is causing you to stop or decelerate to a slower speed. It is the objects in the road ahead of the car that dictate the speed at which you can travel safely as well as the car itself and the accessories the car is equipped with: tires, brakes, etc. Those objects could be: other cars, walls, barriers, people, animal, random objects, pot holes, etc. While true, that some older or more underpowered cars are limited in the speeds they travel that doesn't mean that by them doing 65 mph (or whatever the speed limit is) that they are any safer than your vehicle also doing 65 mph. In fact both vehicles traveling the same speed can in fact have 1 vehicle traveling safely at that speed, while the other is not traveling safely at the same speed.
Example - Your car may be equipped with sticker tires or better brakes or anything else that can help you declerate quickly in case of an upcoming object hindering your forward motion. If the person behind you is not paying attention or did not leave a safe distance between you and them or maybe just is unable to stop as quickly as you due to different braking distances, then they can still be involved in a collision because they were unable to avoid you even though both of you were traveling the speed limit to begin with.
You could also think of it like this. I have heard people say "Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people." Yes and no. If I pick up a bullet and throw it at you, unless I for some reason have an extremely lucky shot, chances are it won't hurt you as I can't put enough velocity behind it to really do the ensuing damage. Now load a bullet into a hand gun and stand 10 feet from the person and fire at them. As long as you hit the target the chances of it doing damage have dramatically increased to where damage or even death can occur depending on where the target is hit. Now go stand 10 miles from the target and fire a bullet from that same hand gun at the target. Now the chances of doing damage have dramatically dropped again. The bullet still travels at the same high speed when fired from the gun yet the person does not sustain injury. The reason being that the bullet when fired still had sufficient time to declerate or stop before ever reaching the intended target.
If you are going 15 mph or 150 mph it makes no difference if there is nothing in front of your vehicle that is causing you to stop or decelerate to a slower speed. It is the objects in the road ahead of the car that dictate the speed at which you can travel safely as well as the car itself and the accessories the car is equipped with: tires, brakes, etc. Those objects could be: other cars, walls, barriers, people, animal, random objects, pot holes, etc. While true, that some older or more underpowered cars are limited in the speeds they travel that doesn't mean that by them doing 65 mph (or whatever the speed limit is) that they are any safer than your vehicle also doing 65 mph. In fact both vehicles traveling the same speed can in fact have 1 vehicle traveling safely at that speed, while the other is not traveling safely at the same speed.
Example - Your car may be equipped with sticker tires or better brakes or anything else that can help you declerate quickly in case of an upcoming object hindering your forward motion. If the person behind you is not paying attention or did not leave a safe distance between you and them or maybe just is unable to stop as quickly as you due to different braking distances, then they can still be involved in a collision because they were unable to avoid you even though both of you were traveling the speed limit to begin with.
You could also think of it like this. I have heard people say "Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people." Yes and no. If I pick up a bullet and throw it at you, unless I for some reason have an extremely lucky shot, chances are it won't hurt you as I can't put enough velocity behind it to really do the ensuing damage. Now load a bullet into a hand gun and stand 10 feet from the person and fire at them. As long as you hit the target the chances of it doing damage have dramatically increased to where damage or even death can occur depending on where the target is hit. Now go stand 10 miles from the target and fire a bullet from that same hand gun at the target. Now the chances of doing damage have dramatically dropped again. The bullet still travels at the same high speed when fired from the gun yet the person does not sustain injury. The reason being that the bullet when fired still had sufficient time to declerate or stop before ever reaching the intended target.
Also, you are correct in saying that if you are in a 100% controlled environment, such as a laboratory without any environmental factors on a perfectly maintained "road" there is little difference between 15 and 150 (ok, I had to add a few things to make your statement "correct". However, once you add in those other little variables (uneven road surface, objects that are in the roadway, environmental conditions such as wind dirt/sand & moisture, other drivers on the roadway that you cannot predict the actions of) then there is a BIG difference between 15 and 150. Please go to the track and let me know if you feel a difference in stability between 15 and 150. Wiggle the wheel a little bit and, if you're able to afterward, tell me how your street car handles that at 150
Your second paragraph doesn't really prove why speeding isn't bad, it helps to exemplify the already known fact that people aren't safe drivers.
Please take your third paragraph and apply the same physics lesson to another area, say the realm of automotive? At 65 mph your car is going to do less damage than at 80.
Last edited by VRT MBasile; 04-27-2009 at 10:51 AM.
04-27-2009, 11:39 AM
#68
aka FlukeWRX
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Speed without impact does not cause damage. You need the vehicle to actually have some type of impact in order to cause damage.
A car traveling at 65 mph and a car traveling at 80 mph will both have zero damage if there is no impact with another object.
As for the arbitrary numbers of both 15 and 150 it is two extreme numbers that was used to prove a point. Do I feel my car is necessarily safe traveling at 150 mph, nope, that is why I would not want to push my car up to that limit at any time.
You are now adding in additional environmental changes and other variables that you made no mention of previously when you were talking about why people should not travel at 80 mph. Like I was saying in my statement above, those changes and variables should be taken in to account and that should help determine what the proper safe traveling speed for your vehicle actually is.
There are freeways in the United States where the Speed Limit is 70 mph instead of 65 mph. Are you still traveling at 65 mph on those freeways or are you traveling 70 mph? If you are traveling 70 mph then why are you doing that? According to your scenario you should not be traveling at 70 mph, you should only be traveling at 65 mph because that is a safer speed to travel.
A car traveling at 65 mph and a car traveling at 80 mph will both have zero damage if there is no impact with another object.
As for the arbitrary numbers of both 15 and 150 it is two extreme numbers that was used to prove a point. Do I feel my car is necessarily safe traveling at 150 mph, nope, that is why I would not want to push my car up to that limit at any time.
You are now adding in additional environmental changes and other variables that you made no mention of previously when you were talking about why people should not travel at 80 mph. Like I was saying in my statement above, those changes and variables should be taken in to account and that should help determine what the proper safe traveling speed for your vehicle actually is.
There are freeways in the United States where the Speed Limit is 70 mph instead of 65 mph. Are you still traveling at 65 mph on those freeways or are you traveling 70 mph? If you are traveling 70 mph then why are you doing that? According to your scenario you should not be traveling at 70 mph, you should only be traveling at 65 mph because that is a safer speed to travel.
04-27-2009, 11:43 AM
#69
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You're right, you need an impact to cause damage. The thing about a higher speed is that it is harder to control your car, therefore increasing the risk of impact. 
I'm not "adding in" anything. Those uncontrollable variables are part of the reason WHY speeding is bad.
The speed limit is based on what the DOT deems safe for those roads. We've been using 65 as the "speed limit" because that is what it is on most freeways. You are correct though that there are some stretches of freeway that the limit has been raised to 70. Why? The DOT feels that is a safe speed for the long stretches with no cars merging in, and traffic flowing in pretty much a straight line. There are also however parts of freeways (101 near Candlestick) that are 50 or 55 mph. Why? The pace of 65 is too fast to be considered safe there.
I'm not "adding in" anything. Those uncontrollable variables are part of the reason WHY speeding is bad.
The speed limit is based on what the DOT deems safe for those roads. We've been using 65 as the "speed limit" because that is what it is on most freeways. You are correct though that there are some stretches of freeway that the limit has been raised to 70. Why? The DOT feels that is a safe speed for the long stretches with no cars merging in, and traffic flowing in pretty much a straight line. There are also however parts of freeways (101 near Candlestick) that are 50 or 55 mph. Why? The pace of 65 is too fast to be considered safe there.
Last edited by VRT MBasile; 04-27-2009 at 11:47 AM.
04-27-2009, 12:12 PM
#70
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Plus most Prics drivers, I mean Prius drivers are usually a-holes to begin with. Last summer while carpooling from SJO on 880N some douche and his wife were tailgating me while in my STi. I hella brake checked him and he nearly hit my ****, then found a small hole swung 2 lanes over tot he right and then proceeded to cut off my safety barrier of 2 to 3 cars by squeezing himself in front of me right where 880N carpool lane ends anyways. What a dumas! Had I not had my friends mom and grandma in the car with me I would of played the high beam and hinking game with them, but oh well. I was going 75 at the time too, that is what was so maddening!
04-27-2009, 12:21 PM
#71
*Sigh* Hybrids. Twice now I've seen at least one Prius passing me, and a few minutes later I'm the one that is getting pulled over for speeding, when I just wanted to pass a car that seemed to be unable to maintain their speed on an uphill road.
First time was at 280S. I paced a Prius just to see how fast it was going (85mph), then I slowed down to my usual pace (65-70). On an uphill portion, passed an old toyota, and within 10 seconds I saw flashing lights behind me. Luckily, the officer gave me a break.
Second time was at 50, on my way to Tahoe. I passed a civic on an uphill portion. By the time I got back to my lane, the uphill is now downhill, and 2 seconds later I saw a police car crossing the grass area that separates 50 West and 50 East. A few seconds later, Officer Jong was pulling me over. What frustrated me was that there was a countless number of Prius', mini-vans and SUV's there were passing me the whole morning -- I don't think I even went past 75 prior to getting to 50, just pacing with the other vehicles.
Interestingly, has anyone ever seen a Prius pulled over?
Oh, I'm rarely at the fast lane nowadays. I'm only there if I need to pass, or if there's quite a bit of traffic, and that lane seems to be moving fastest (which is even more rare).
First time was at 280S. I paced a Prius just to see how fast it was going (85mph), then I slowed down to my usual pace (65-70). On an uphill portion, passed an old toyota, and within 10 seconds I saw flashing lights behind me. Luckily, the officer gave me a break.
Second time was at 50, on my way to Tahoe. I passed a civic on an uphill portion. By the time I got back to my lane, the uphill is now downhill, and 2 seconds later I saw a police car crossing the grass area that separates 50 West and 50 East. A few seconds later, Officer Jong was pulling me over. What frustrated me was that there was a countless number of Prius', mini-vans and SUV's there were passing me the whole morning -- I don't think I even went past 75 prior to getting to 50, just pacing with the other vehicles.
Interestingly, has anyone ever seen a Prius pulled over?
Oh, I'm rarely at the fast lane nowadays. I'm only there if I need to pass, or if there's quite a bit of traffic, and that lane seems to be moving fastest (which is even more rare).
Last edited by zergling; 04-27-2009 at 12:25 PM.
04-27-2009, 12:49 PM
#72
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04-27-2009, 01:08 PM
#74
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Well since we've moved on to talking about Prius stories...
I saw a black prius, lowered, black aftermarket wheels, dark tint, and painted red brake calipers
I saw a black prius, lowered, black aftermarket wheels, dark tint, and painted red brake calipers
04-27-2009, 01:56 PM
#75
