iLoqin

iTrader: (5)

I think it depends on what you're graduating as, and how you've applied yourself to your future job(s).

My friend graduated CAL and had 77k sitting on his table from different companies. He got a 4.0 and was in the business school Haas

My sister graduated with an accounting degree and 1 year previous to her graduation offered a 50-60k job. There are tons of accounting majors who graduate, but rarely any of them get offered the job.

I think it was because during her time at school she got interviews about 15 times and during that time she knew gradually figured out what was needed for that type of job, and her interviews eventually became stronger and more marketable.

I like the posts a couple up talkin about the gifts n' talents and the infinite abilities. There isn't 1 answer to why some people fail at getting their own house n' puttin their kids through school. It's all a matter of how you work with what you have.

Hollandaze

You know... my dad told me a story about that. That's why he's semi-deaf in one ear trying to make his way to Hong Kong. My parents aren't that well off. We're okay. We don't spend a lot of money on dumb crap (flat screen TVs, luxury cars, vacations to Hawaii, etc). The house is almost paid off (we got it back in 1988 when I was almost 7). We're just middle class and my parents busted their asses to get us there. Mom works as a waitress at a major restaurant chain. My dad owns and operates his own sign company (and works with his guys too on every single project).

When I was in college, it didn't hit me because I was a bit spoiled (well, I did that to myself; blow my money on stupid crap, not learn how to save cash). Then sh*t hits the fan and when I got out of school, it was pretty much in the dawn of the depression. Also being out of a job for almost a year not too long ago. I must've spent hours figuring out how to spread out my savings so I'd have money to put into my gas tank and what not to maintain a less-than-hermit lifestyle. So it was a bit of a wake up call to work real hard and learn as much as I can in the job field.

I have friends who always talk about down times at their work where they can goof off on YouTube all day, surf message boards and chat with friends, or play table tennis with their boss. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have that, but I think it's in my best interest to bust my *** rather than get spoiled at my job like that. It was odd because the past jobs I've had, I rarely, if ever, had down time like that. I was always actually working. So when I took a few freelance gigs in the past year and there were times when I had to wait for a response or feedback and the person in charge just told me to, "hang out for a bit" or apologize that there isn't much else going on to keep me busy for all 8 working hours, I was surprised as hell.

I've always had the weight on my shoulders as the son who's supposed to lead them into retirement, but they've begun to be supportive that my road to that is a bit longer than some people. I just had to accept that, hold my head up high, and take my past mistakes to improve myself and my quality of living. I just know I'm part of my parents' American dream and I hope to help them accomplish it someday. Anyway, that's all I'll say on the topic (or a bit off tangent, sorry). I'll go back to lurking this thread.

adizon

iTrader: (25)

I went to college, to see how I faired up to people with the same interest (art). One thing I learned was how hard and competitive it was. Sure I learned it for the love of it, but I wanted to be realistic with being able to make a career out of it. Didn't want a 40K-50K school debt and be a starving artist.

One teacher told me "Look around the classroom, maybe 1, maybe 2 of these folks will have success in an art career of the 30 or so students. That he saw potential in me, but that I would need to strive to be in the top 3-5 students of every class that I took." Basically to have a fighting chance of landing a good job in the (entertainment) industry. He also mentioned that our careers don't start once we graduate, but rather here in this class. Because one day classmate "Bobby Joe" is gonna get a job working on the next Star Wars, and somebody is gonna ask him about my resume/portfolio/work ethic. If I was a slacker Bobby Joe would say, "Don't hire that guy, he is lazy, never made notable efforts in his projects, etc."

I worked crazy hard in school, moved toward the top 5 of my class. Got a job in the field 3 weeks after graduation, 3 months later I found myself at Industrial Light & Magic. And for the following 4 years, I would be utterly beat down with insane hours, low pay, lack of self esteem, and lived, ate and breathed work, as I foughtto improve my own art work just to get it to the level of the seasoned artists. Because even though I was towards the top in my class, being in the presence of some of the Industries top artists put me, yup, right at the bottom. Slowly I made small strides, and eventually all the crazy "paying dues" and insane hours payed off. I'm not the best, but I will say that I hold my own. I don't get paid 6 digit figures (for now), but I'm pretty content.

I've been at my career for 9 years, and I think I'm finally able to have a better balanced life, because I busted my a$$ in the beginning. Now I got a lovely wife, a mortgage, and a career that is still challenging, but overall I enjoy it. Though I'd love to have an STI, or and EVO, or an M3, or an I-phone, I'll settle for a WRX and an I-club!

Who would have ever thought that one would be paid pretty well to paint monsters, robots, and spaceships? I agree with what was said above, busting your a$$, and taking pride in your work, and doin an honest days work, and living within your means are essential ingredients in being content. Cause money ain't everything. In fact "money is a wonderful servant, but a horrible master".

It's late, maybe I'm just rambling!

evsoul

iTrader: (1)

My gramma came from russia with literally no money back in the 30's.. stayed with family and worked and met her husband (my grampa) they saved up, bought about 15 houses.

they had the right idea.

seems like today though, to buy even one house you and your spouse gotta make well over 100k a year.

I am lucky enough to inherit a few houses. By inherit I mean buy from my gramma with no interest.

iLoqin

iTrader: (5)

This topic is more than just an i-club topic, so I shared interest with a friend and here's how he respond


"To Joltdude,

I take issue with your post on a few points.

First, what do you mean by "longtime immigrant"? If you're born in the US to immigrant parents, you're not considered an immigrant: you're considered a natural-born citizen of the United States of America (granted your parents sought and were awarded citizenship). If we're talking about 5+ familial, consecutive generations, this has to be the case. It isn't possible for a given genealogy to remain undocumented and uncertified for 5+ generations in the US (or any modernized, democratic society, for that matter) and flourish, let alone survive for that long.

Second, why are you focusing only on the hardships of so-called "longtime immigrants"? You act as if every descendant of every person who settled in the original thirteen colonies has it good. I assure you that this isn't the case. If it were, Fortune's current list of the US's most well-to-do families would be populated with surnames that were prominent even during the 18th and 19th centuries. I doubt you recognize any of today's most endowed surnames (Gates, Buffet, Ellison) from your high school history textbooks. My point? It's not just immigrants that have it rough. I'm sure a good deal of the progeny of those who arrived at and settled the New World so long ago are eking out a living today.

Third, eighteen-year-olds moving out of the house is not the reason poverty and prejudice exists in the US. If anything, it's the reason why there are so many American success stories. Do you want to know one of the most important reasons America is great? It's great because just about anyone can say, "**** it," move out, chase their dreams, and actually have a shot at reaching them. (Your father is an excellent example.)

To me, it sounds like you're advocating socialism. Not everyone is awarded the same benefits, monetary rewards, standards of living, "slice of the pie," etc., within a capitalistic society. Like it or not, capitalism is a cutthroat enterprise. Whatever you want is there for the taking—you just have to be willing to work hard enough to get it (and outreach your competition in the process).

As for "feeling more American than others," I'm not sure what you're referring to. America is the great melting pot of the world. We're all Americans."

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

i <3 you

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

Stephen (sp?) your friend is a ****ing moron...

I'm pretty conservative. You got me completely wrong. I'd be the last person to be pro-handout. take a hard look at yourself buddy, you aren't the intuitive person you think you. I can't believe how off the mark you are.

I started this thread to get into why people thought why recent immigrants, not their kin, but the ones who came here 10/20/30 years ago are the ones who are doing well vs those who came here 60 years ago or more. Of course persons whose families were here in 1770 should be better off, but my thread is about how families who came here a long time ago AREN'T doing as well as one would think. Reread what I'm saying, you completely read it wrong, yet everyone else in this thread read it right.

Of course people who are born here are ****ing citizens, that's obvious, that's not what I'm talking about specifically. I'm talking about old time families vs the people who came here in the last few decades.

as to your 3rd point, err non-point, yeah, I know that it's awesome that you can leave the house when you want to and go do what you want to do... I'm not talking down the right, i'm talking down the folks who do so, and **** it up by making poor decisions like buying a new $3000 TV instead of paying their mortgage payment. (yes, this happens, I've been hearing about family member of a co-worker... oh man, the stupid decisions that are being made in this country at this time... no wonder there are so many foreclosures.)

Reading comprehension is your friend...

BattleSchoolCpt

joltdudeuc,

First, if you're interested in having a focused and purposeful debate, do away with the ad hominems. Fallacies don't contribute to meaningful discussion.

Second, as for being so completely "off the mark," I think it's you who is having trouble organizing your thoughts and evaluating mine. Case in point:

Here's one of the points I made:

You're trying to debate me by making the same point I did. This, for obvious reasons, does not work. It seems to me you need to start taking up your own advice. Reading comprehension is not only my friend: it's your friend too.

I think you missed my point. That's OK--I'm not going to call you a moron. I probably wasn't clear enough. It's not just people who came here "60 years ago or more" who have it bad: some of this country's original and oldest forebears, not just "longtime immigrants," were also subjected to the same dire financial and social straights of which you speak, and in some cases, as we both pointed out, the same unfortunate circumstances infringe on their family line even to this day. At the same time, not everyone who came here "10/20/30 years ago" has it good. I think that's a given. (If, however, you claim otherwise, I claim that you are making a hasty generalization.)

So, what does all this tell you? It should tell you exactly what I pointed out in my previous post: capitalism is an inherently cutthroat enterprise. If you want it bad enough, you can have it--it's there for the taking. If, however, you're not willing or ready to run with the best, then you will invariably find yourself in a disadvantaged state. The amount of success one finds at his feet is not contingent on when his ancestors arrived in the New World: it's contingent on his persistence, ambition, and will. (Have you read your signature lately?)

Think about how overwhelming, and inspiring, it must be for someone from a developing and impoverished nation to arrive in America and discover so much opportunity before them. A good portion of those who come to America achieve success because that's exactly what they intended--they were willing and ready to run with the best. It has always been this way. American immigration isn't a new phenomenon. America has always been a shining city on a hill. The problem with your assertion is that it just has no merit. Where is your empirical data? You hastily assume that the majority of the descendants of those who arrived "60 years ago or more" (by the way, that's a pretty arbitrary number) have it bad and that the majority of those who came here "10/20/30 years ago" have it good. This just isn't the case. You're committing the fallacy of composition.

One last point: the housing bubble and its ruinous aftermath is a little more complicated than people buying $3000 TVs. I'm sure you can appreciate that fact.

--****ing Moron

GilTsuby

iTrader: (2)

Good post. The same thoughts have crossed my mind. I have friends and family that came here with nothing and not knowing to speak the language, yet they have managed to own home(s), put their kids through collage and live the "American Dream" Yet I have cousins and friends that were born here, speak english very well, are educated yet have nothing and STILL free load off their parents!

I think modern america has become pretentious and materialistic. People are going broke trying to impress the world.

jinorazi

i'm 1.5 gen meaning i wasnt born here.
my family (mom, dad, brother, sister, me) came here in 1994. shortly after my parents divorced (feud since korea). anyways, my mom support me, my sister and my brother by herself working two jobs. later we owned a sushi restaurent then sold that and got a house. i say we came long ways since the days we lacked the language skills.

i remember the days we would loaded up our laundry on shopping carts, take it 6 blocks to get it washed and bring it back. now i own a sti, my brother mercedes, my mom w/ a house and my sister married, things are looking good except for the part my brother's business did poorly during the ecomony crisis(jewelry industry + high metal prices = no good).

anyone can go up the ranks as long as they work hard, can think lil bit and some luck.

BattleSchoolCpt

Amen.

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

No, it's YOUR friend buddy. You're saying I'm making the same points YOU made??? I was telling you that those ARE my points from the very beginning... Read my first post again dude, cause you did not read it right, unlike everyone else in the thread.

Please. I'm not claiming it as a generalization, PLEASE READ MY POST AGAIN. Think it over a little bit before you post. Where we live there are a lot more people who are immigrants in the last 10-30 years who own 1+ homes, have businesses etc and what I'm saying is it's completely disproportionate to the folks who have been here for much longer. It's completely flip flopped. I'm asking why people think this is true, or not.

one vs the other I'd say it is true. These are my observations about where I live, it's actually not too far from where Stephen lived in Fremont. How many Asian families for instance do you know that are in homes vs renting? How many non asians lets say are in the same situation.

If you look at when these groups arrived, you'll find many of the asians have been here for 30 years or less, whereas the non asians have probably been here a lot longer than that. These are MY observations, my experiences living in the eastbay. I'm

welcome to the intArweb, where nothing should be seriously

Ah ok, i give in... you're right, it's not that simple. Might as well throw you a bone.


Here, why don't you quote my first post, and dissect that and lets see if I truly didn't already say what you said earlier. I'm all for hard work, and the American way, that's why I brought up my dad.

rau

iTrader: (9)

so much truth in this statement

Superglue WRX

^^^^

That's not the only thing that ensures success. My dishwasher works hard and hasn't gotten anywhere in life.

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, making good decisions is pretty important too. I think there are many folks who work hard, but it's take a little of many things to put things together.