View Poll Results: Do you/your parents have a mortgage?
I have a mortage
21
31.82%
I no longer have a mortage
1
1.52%
Parents have a mortage
31
46.97%
Parents no longer have a mortage
13
19.70%
I/Parents rent
15
22.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll
Immigrants, "Americans" and the American Dream...
08-19-2008, 09:09 AM
#46
Those are definitely steep numbers. 600k gets you a pretty decent home in Union City where I live, but 300k gets you a home at about 1035 sq ft with 3bed/2bath and garage, at about 30yrs old.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/25001415_zpid
So for a fixed 30yr at 6.34% with 3% down ($9000) you'd have a payment of about $2050/mo including taxes.
That's here in Union City, so that doesn't work for a lot of folks in terms of commute, but I think you see my point. It's a quite area, older, but at least everything is pretty darn close by including both elementary and middle schools (1/2mi away).
It may not work out for most of us, but it's not as bad as it may seem. There are a lot of deals right now, and there will be more over the next 1-2 years.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/25001415_zpid
So for a fixed 30yr at 6.34% with 3% down ($9000) you'd have a payment of about $2050/mo including taxes.
That's here in Union City, so that doesn't work for a lot of folks in terms of commute, but I think you see my point. It's a quite area, older, but at least everything is pretty darn close by including both elementary and middle schools (1/2mi away).
It may not work out for most of us, but it's not as bad as it may seem. There are a lot of deals right now, and there will be more over the next 1-2 years.
08-19-2008, 09:11 AM
#47
This kind of comment quoted without you saying above that you're an average built 5'7" asian guy would have been the give away to me that you arent white. Simply put, white people don't make comments using "white guys" as a reference. We'd say corporate douche. To set the record straight also. Many of Walmarts employees at store level are white, poor whites to boot.
08-19-2008, 09:16 AM
#48
This kind of comment quoted without you saying above that you're an average built 5'7" asian guy would have been the give away to me that you arent white. Simply put, white people don't make comments using "white guys" as a reference. We'd say corporate douche. To set the record straight also. Many of Walmarts employees at store level are white, poor whites to boot.
08-19-2008, 09:20 AM
#49
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Well Gagan, there's more to it than just the commute. Its the fact that alot of us from the Peninsula want nothing to do with the east bay. Hate to say it, but the people in the east bay are the biggest reason.
I think the 300k home calculating out to $2050/mo mortgage+taxes is very conservative. Take into account that many lenders require you have homeowners insurance to cover their asset until its paid off. If you own property and don't have insurance you're a fool anyhow.
Gagan, if I may ask....do you own and or are you buying a home? If so did your family co-sign, help with the down payment, and will they be there to support you if you were to lose your source of income and not be able to pay your mortgage? Do you have any children or other financial obligations?
I hate to be so personal on a public forum, but I'm trying to get at how you make it seem like everyone should be doing it. Cause if that's how you see it you should be doing it yourself. And not that Joe is or was a bad employer, but last time I checked working for SubyDude probably didn't provide the income to buy a house with around here. I think you've left working there, but just saying.
Im not trying to provoke an argument, so I apologize if it comes across that way. Just trying to level the playing field.
I think the 300k home calculating out to $2050/mo mortgage+taxes is very conservative. Take into account that many lenders require you have homeowners insurance to cover their asset until its paid off. If you own property and don't have insurance you're a fool anyhow.
Gagan, if I may ask....do you own and or are you buying a home? If so did your family co-sign, help with the down payment, and will they be there to support you if you were to lose your source of income and not be able to pay your mortgage? Do you have any children or other financial obligations?
I hate to be so personal on a public forum, but I'm trying to get at how you make it seem like everyone should be doing it. Cause if that's how you see it you should be doing it yourself. And not that Joe is or was a bad employer, but last time I checked working for SubyDude probably didn't provide the income to buy a house with around here. I think you've left working there, but just saying.
Im not trying to provoke an argument, so I apologize if it comes across that way. Just trying to level the playing field.
08-19-2008, 09:26 AM
#50
I have had thoughts about the same idea... but not with immigrants or racism...
My main thought is... what's the difference between Bill Gates and the homeless person on the corner?
Is it just the simple drive to want more?
It really hit me when I was working as a manager at a movie theater. I was 18 and in High School. I was working 2pm - 2am, making $8.50/hr. It sucked and I was pissed. one of my co-workers was really kinda pissed off that I was so upset about the situation. I felt like I was working my *** off, I was literally on call 24/7 for that ****hole theater. I eventually quit to go to school. I ended going to Chico State of all places. My first semester (last fall) was basically taken care of by my parents, they paid for tuition, the dorm, books, the whole 9. But of course with it being Chico and all I went and partied my *** off... of course I didn't make grades and my parents pulled my *** out. I spent the last 8 months working at Kinkos, and now I back in Chico, except this time I paid the tuition, rent, books, ect. (I let you know how it went when the semester is over) All Honesty, I am kinda glad that I am really starting to pay for my expenses. It definitely feels a lot better when I know I am the reason for my success/failure...
My main thought is... what's the difference between Bill Gates and the homeless person on the corner?
Is it just the simple drive to want more?
It really hit me when I was working as a manager at a movie theater. I was 18 and in High School. I was working 2pm - 2am, making $8.50/hr. It sucked and I was pissed. one of my co-workers was really kinda pissed off that I was so upset about the situation. I felt like I was working my *** off, I was literally on call 24/7 for that ****hole theater. I eventually quit to go to school. I ended going to Chico State of all places. My first semester (last fall) was basically taken care of by my parents, they paid for tuition, the dorm, books, the whole 9. But of course with it being Chico and all I went and partied my *** off... of course I didn't make grades and my parents pulled my *** out. I spent the last 8 months working at Kinkos, and now I back in Chico, except this time I paid the tuition, rent, books, ect. (I let you know how it went when the semester is over) All Honesty, I am kinda glad that I am really starting to pay for my expenses. It definitely feels a lot better when I know I am the reason for my success/failure...
Last edited by JourdanWithaU; 08-19-2008 at 09:29 AM.
08-19-2008, 09:47 AM
#51
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Well Gagan, there's more to it than just the commute. Its the fact that alot of us from the Peninsula want nothing to do with the east bay. Hate to say it, but the people in the east bay are the biggest reason.
I think the 300k home calculating out to $2050/mo mortgage+taxes is very conservative. Take into account that many lenders require you have homeowners insurance to cover their asset until its paid off. If you own property and don't have insurance you're a fool anyhow.
Gagan, if I may ask....do you own and or are you buying a home? If so did your family co-sign, help with the down payment, and will they be there to support you if you were to lose your source of income and not be able to pay your mortgage? Do you have any children or other financial obligations?
I hate to be so personal on a public forum, but I'm trying to get at how you make it seem like everyone should be doing it. Cause if that's how you see it you should be doing it yourself. And not that Joe is or was a bad employer, but last time I checked working for SubyDude probably didn't provide the income to buy a house with around here. I think you've left working there, but just saying.
Im not trying to provoke an argument, so I apologize if it comes across that way. Just trying to level the playing field.
I think the 300k home calculating out to $2050/mo mortgage+taxes is very conservative. Take into account that many lenders require you have homeowners insurance to cover their asset until its paid off. If you own property and don't have insurance you're a fool anyhow.
Gagan, if I may ask....do you own and or are you buying a home? If so did your family co-sign, help with the down payment, and will they be there to support you if you were to lose your source of income and not be able to pay your mortgage? Do you have any children or other financial obligations?
I hate to be so personal on a public forum, but I'm trying to get at how you make it seem like everyone should be doing it. Cause if that's how you see it you should be doing it yourself. And not that Joe is or was a bad employer, but last time I checked working for SubyDude probably didn't provide the income to buy a house with around here. I think you've left working there, but just saying.
Im not trying to provoke an argument, so I apologize if it comes across that way. Just trying to level the playing field.
I want to talk more about the sociology of past generations, and how they haven't really made it, or the current kin are about the same in terms of where they sit economically vs their predecessors.
I dunno, I like the east bay. Sure, I've had my car vandalized far too many times, and also our home... but i guess people just must have it out for me since others never get hit. oh well. It's not really that bad, not like Oakland or Richmond.
Here's my story, cause it would only be fair to you to know where I stand:
I live at home, married to a wife who is still in school. I've wanted to move out since I was like 12 cause my parents are super controlling, and I as much as I love them, I couldn't stand the control they had on me as a teen growing up. I didn't get to do much, never had much. Started working when I was 16 so that I could do things on my own. They cut me a deal, as long as I went to college, they'd pay. So I did, and I worked actually 2 jobs while in school, not just at Joe's, which you're right wasn't much, but I'm loyal and I stuck around to help him when business was not great and worked very very little. Hence basically me spending way too much on food, gas and mods. Eventually this all added up, and by the time I graduated it was definitely time to move on to a real job, which luckily I found just before graduation.
I see my mistakes now, I'm working on it. I'd have moved out long ago, but in my culture I'm not supposed to. It would crush my parents and grandparents if I did it on my own. Eventually I'm sure I'll have to leave since I have a younger brother who isn't going anywhere fast, and is a ****ing leech to my parents. My wife doesn't want to leave either cause us doing will reflect super poor on her in the Indian community, and when you're here at long as my dad has, he pretty much know everyone in the Punjabi community, so it it'd be awful in gossip city.
So stupid cultural ties, and my own really stupid choices have me at home. But I'm saving, cause I know I can't stay here forever like my parents would want me to. Way too much tension already, and they wouldn't want me to move out to end up in an apt, they'd want me to be in a house. I don't ask them for anything, they paid for me school, that's so much right there. I help them out now since my dad and grandfather aren't working, add that to a stupid expensive wedding (not my decision) and I'm having just the rockiest start.
But back to the thread topic: why can immigrant come here and make, and I'm not blowing smoke here guys, i'm serious, I know far too many people who have only been here for 15-20 years and they own their homes or nearly paid them off, yet so many generations of people are here and aren't really moving up.
08-19-2008, 09:51 AM
#52
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I have a problem with this statement right here. When I go to the grocery store I see way more Mexican's and black people with food stamps and welfare and WIC than I do white people. Yea, some of the mexican immigrants that come over here work extremely hard to get everything they can. But I also see them spitting out 5-10 kids and the wife goes and get's WIC for those kids.
As far as history, not everybody can stay in one place. I grew up in Philly for 13 years. My parents owned their house there for about 15-16 years. Mostly on one salary as my mom had to stay home to watch me and my brother while getting my oldest brother to school. In '93 my parents had the chance to move to Southern California and jumped on it. But homes were and still are ridiculously expensive. And my Dad's job was a construction based job. After 5 years, the project was over and we had to move again to where the next job was. Over the next 4 years, my parents were in San Diego for 8 months, Puerto Rico for 4 months, and then back on the East Coast for 3 years before we moved back here to Northern California. Again, home prices through the roof. Makes it difficult to buy.
So not everybody can go to one place and stay there for 30 years and pay off a mortgage. There are some extenuating circumstances that can force families to have to move and what you sold your previous house for may not even be enough of a downpayment for a new house where you have to move too. And once you get into a cycle of renting, it's extremely difficult to get out of it.
But also consumerism plays a major role. I will say that a lot of American born people all aspire to have the best this and the best that. Money doesn't play a thought. You want it, so you buy it and deal with the consequences afterwards.
As far as history, not everybody can stay in one place. I grew up in Philly for 13 years. My parents owned their house there for about 15-16 years. Mostly on one salary as my mom had to stay home to watch me and my brother while getting my oldest brother to school. In '93 my parents had the chance to move to Southern California and jumped on it. But homes were and still are ridiculously expensive. And my Dad's job was a construction based job. After 5 years, the project was over and we had to move again to where the next job was. Over the next 4 years, my parents were in San Diego for 8 months, Puerto Rico for 4 months, and then back on the East Coast for 3 years before we moved back here to Northern California. Again, home prices through the roof. Makes it difficult to buy.
So not everybody can go to one place and stay there for 30 years and pay off a mortgage. There are some extenuating circumstances that can force families to have to move and what you sold your previous house for may not even be enough of a downpayment for a new house where you have to move too. And once you get into a cycle of renting, it's extremely difficult to get out of it.
But also consumerism plays a major role. I will say that a lot of American born people all aspire to have the best this and the best that. Money doesn't play a thought. You want it, so you buy it and deal with the consequences afterwards.
I didn't really think about folks moving around a lot. I hardly see moving trucks anymore, i used to see so many, so I somewhat felt people are sticking it out nowadays.
I know that it's not possible for everyone, i guess I'm just perplexed why it's not for people who's families have been here for like 80-100 years (or more). But I see what you and SSFWRX and Daniel are saying, it's probably all these other major events that offset everything.
08-19-2008, 09:55 AM
#53
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Gagan, you are gonna need to add about $200 to that mortgage payment to pay the PMI cause you didn't put down 20%. I'll deal with the commute, but I'm not about to live in a place where I'm gonna have to worry about my car getting vandalized or my house broken into. I'll deal with a slightly longer drive to have that piece of mind.
08-19-2008, 10:17 AM
#54
The other problem now is that everything costs so much more than it used to. Raising a child cost 2 to 3 times what it did back in the day. So you factor that, with a mortgage and car payment and insurance for both, then you need food which is constantly going up. Some people just don't see owning a house as a feasible option.
You also have the people that buy a small dinky house and live there for 5-10 years, build some equity and then bounce to a bigger, nicer house. Sometimes they will then sell that house 5-10 years later for something bigger or nicer.
But there could also be a difference in what the American Dream is to immigrants compared to "nationals". The American dream to some immigrants could be just owning a home and working hard and maintaining and having children and being happy. Where a lot of "nationals" are more selfish. They want a big house, big car, make tons of money but only have to work 40 hours or less a week at it. The views are skewed due to the upbringing and what you saw as you grew up. Yea, if we stayed in philly, my parents would have eventually moved out to the suburbs and would have still had a mortgage due to that. Mostly due the neighborhood was on an exponential downhill slide. Every year got twice as bad as the previous year.
Me, I want to get a house so I have something that is mine. I saw the mistakes that my parents have made and I'm gonna try to not get myself into that same situation. Get into a house, and finally get back in school so I can finish. Is that gonna make me happy? I can't say right now. I would hope that it would, but you just never know.
08-19-2008, 10:52 AM
#55
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Some threads lately have been popping up around here and other places and some topics in politics have been just making me insane.
So, the question I have is, why are so many long time immigrants (we're talking like 5+ generations, sometimes MUCH more) STILL in debt, still paying off mortgages and don't own land fully, yet, people like my dad can show up to the bay area in 1977 with a suitcase, $4, and today have put his son through college, have no mortgage (2 homes) and mom/dad working to pay basically food, utilities, and property taxes/other taxes??
So, the question I have is, why are so many long time immigrants (we're talking like 5+ generations, sometimes MUCH more) STILL in debt, still paying off mortgages and don't own land fully, yet, people like my dad can show up to the bay area in 1977 with a suitcase, $4, and today have put his son through college, have no mortgage (2 homes) and mom/dad working to pay basically food, utilities, and property taxes/other taxes??
08-19-2008, 11:56 AM
#56
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My grandparents came here from Austria after the war.
They both came from extremely wealthy families, but had nothing when they arrived.
They saved everything they made, invested it, and when he retired, he was making more $$$ than when he was working.
He owned his house well before the 30yr mortgage was due.
What I see wrong with recent generations, is laziness. White, blacks, browns, and even...gasp!..azns.
That & the " I Gotta have the latest go fast part, the latest iphone, the lastest....whatever" and all $$ is gone.
**** that.
Work hard, save hard, become wealthy.
We need Irration X to post up his story.....
They both came from extremely wealthy families, but had nothing when they arrived.
They saved everything they made, invested it, and when he retired, he was making more $$$ than when he was working.
He owned his house well before the 30yr mortgage was due.
What I see wrong with recent generations, is laziness. White, blacks, browns, and even...gasp!..azns.
That & the " I Gotta have the latest go fast part, the latest iphone, the lastest....whatever" and all $$ is gone.
**** that.
Work hard, save hard, become wealthy.
We need Irration X to post up his story.....
08-19-2008, 12:06 PM
#57
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immigrants are actually slowly going back to there our country now(mexicans). because they can't afford the cost of living now, with food prices going up it's too much for a lot of them and the government has finally cut down on dishing out money for them. And to get a house now they have to have proof they have at least 720 credit score and have a bank account and proof of how much they make a month etc. being illegals these are things a lot of illegals don't have because they get CASH, no checks etc. so go back to your own country!
My moms friend is in real estate and he says 90% of the houses going up for sale are houses mexicans have abandoned because they couldn't make the payments, in doing so they strip everything in the house that holds some sort of value and leave it ****ing trashed.
My moms friend is in real estate and he says 90% of the houses going up for sale are houses mexicans have abandoned because they couldn't make the payments, in doing so they strip everything in the house that holds some sort of value and leave it ****ing trashed.
Last edited by Traxamillion; 08-19-2008 at 12:14 PM.
08-19-2008, 12:06 PM
#58
My grandparents came here from Austria after the war.
They both came from extremely wealthy families, but had nothing when they arrived.
They saved everything they made, invested it, and when he retired, he was making more $$$ than when he was working.
He owned his house well before the 30yr mortgage was due.
What I see wrong with recent generations, is laziness. White, blacks, browns, and even...gasp!..azns.
That & the " I Gotta have the latest go fast part, the latest iphone, the lastest....whatever" and all $$ is gone.
**** that.
Work hard, save hard, become wealthy.
We need Irration X to post up his story.....
They both came from extremely wealthy families, but had nothing when they arrived.
They saved everything they made, invested it, and when he retired, he was making more $$$ than when he was working.
He owned his house well before the 30yr mortgage was due.
What I see wrong with recent generations, is laziness. White, blacks, browns, and even...gasp!..azns.
That & the " I Gotta have the latest go fast part, the latest iphone, the lastest....whatever" and all $$ is gone.
**** that.
Work hard, save hard, become wealthy.
We need Irration X to post up his story.....
08-19-2008, 12:40 PM
#59
Yep we are just lazy. My friends dad came from Palestine when he was 18 after being forced to leave his homeland by the jews. Came here with zero, now he owns tons of houses and is worth millions, grossing half a mill a year profit minimum. His son is a lazy piece of **** who takes everything for granted. don't give your kids to much or they never appreciate what they have.
08-19-2008, 01:19 PM
#60
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Gagan, I actually have an opinion on this because I have thought about this a lot: "Why do immigrants arrive in America penniless and become debt free and worth millions today, even though they might have only <100k salaries and normal jobs?"
I agree with Paul - immigrants work HARD. Think about it with Chinese people: my parents SWAM across shark infested waters to flee China to Hong Kong. TONS of Vietnamese, Cambodian, Indian, Chinese people of our parents generation have similar CRAZY stories of how they survived to make it to America.
And when they got to America, because they had tasted how crappy life used to be, they not only worked hard but planned and most of all, did it all for their kids so their kids wouldn't have to go through what they did This unfortunately manifested in a lot of overcontrolling parents (like you mentioned) and spoiled kids like slow04WRX mentioned in the post above mine, but I really think this attitude of not taking freedom for granted and committing their lives to start a new family here, is why many immigrants have a lot of wealth.
I agree with Paul - immigrants work HARD. Think about it with Chinese people: my parents SWAM across shark infested waters to flee China to Hong Kong. TONS of Vietnamese, Cambodian, Indian, Chinese people of our parents generation have similar CRAZY stories of how they survived to make it to America.
And when they got to America, because they had tasted how crappy life used to be, they not only worked hard but planned and most of all, did it all for their kids so their kids wouldn't have to go through what they did This unfortunately manifested in a lot of overcontrolling parents (like you mentioned) and spoiled kids like slow04WRX mentioned in the post above mine, but I really think this attitude of not taking freedom for granted and committing their lives to start a new family here, is why many immigrants have a lot of wealth.
Last edited by verc; 08-19-2008 at 01:23 PM.