Lorry

A heavy door ding or a bent bumper could count as a collision. Its all a matter of degree. I'm not sure that they 'have' to disclose anything. In the same way they don't have to disclose that the clutch has been abused or the synchros are shagged.

If you ask them a direct question 'Has it been in any accidents', then you would hope to get an honest answer, and a dishonest answer would probably be misrepresentation. But how do you really know?

kravdra

Yea, I think its technically anything over 300 or 500 dollars in damage must be reported to the insurance company. But that can also be a fuzy line if you repair it yourself.

nachomc

iTrader: (7)

In CA, anything >= $500 must be reported to the DMV. I think that reporting to your insurance company takes care of reporting to DMV if it's needed.

If you fail to report the accident, say you and the other party were trying to settle the damages without going through insurance, and the DMV somehow finds out, they'll suspend your license.

En3D

iTrader: (12)

Lorry you make some very good points. but this is a bit different, let's say the original owner doesn't know anything about cars and just drives it. how would he/she know that the tranny is going or any other wear and tear items. but when there was an accident that a dent guy was able to see, that means

A) the owner got a half azz job and dump the car

B) the dealership didn't do their job and "inspect" the car like they should have (it's not like the dealership had to tear the car apart, cosmetic repairs should be the first thing dealerships look for when taking in a used vehicle).

And let this be a lesson to all, this saved my butt too. ask the question: has it been in an accident. the guy bought an 04 with very little miles.

Lorry

I guess all I was getting at is where the line is drawn between minor cosmetic work, and significant structural damage. As we all know, the DMV $500 doesn't cover a big repair these days.

If you buy a used car privately, it is usually buyer beware. Similarly, the small auto lots on El Camino etc. are 'sold as seen'. Where the line starts to get blurry is the 'approved used vehicle'. What that actually means probably depends on the brand of car and the local dealer.

For me, the bottom line is I would always be cautious buying any used vehicle - particularly a budget performance sedan like a WRX. So many have been crashed and/or badly modifed. My previous car (RX-7) had a re-sprayed driver's door. If you looked at it in flat lighting you could see the difference in surface finish. I used this (plus the fact that it had been keyed) to whack $5000 off the listed $24,000 price. Later, when I sold the vehicle, I disclosed this before making the sale, primarily to pre-empt negotiation about the vehicle's condition.

doughboy

iTrader: (3)

so what are the buyer's and seller's rights/obligations during a transaction?

the seller HAS to disclose any previous accidents? should the buyer even bother asking if the it is the seller's obligation to divulge? where does the law stand in terms of buyer recourse? if the seller didn't disclose, the buyer has legal recourse to seek the difference in actual cost to him versus perceived/adjusted cost due to the accident?

i'd like to know the law about this...meaning NO SPECULATION if you're not sure where the law stands!

db

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

I suggest you read that sticker on the window on car lots. The 'FTC' sticker. Stands for "Fack The Customer." No wait, it's "Federal Trade Comission" yeah that's right. Unless things have changed, the dealer can tell you it's a rear engine V8 with wings and the dealership is not liable for what he says (loose translation). If the dealership chooses to make a move like this, it means they are really cool. There are so many threats these days about badmouthing on the internet, that they really just need to make a judgement call on that one. Nice that it turned out lucky. While I think it's lame that you ended up with a mashed car thinking it was new condition, it is TOTALLY your responsibility to check out anything that is not a brand new car.

-Jacob

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

WOW, thanks for keeping this tread alive. In all actuality, They were not required to do anything, as the law states. CA has no cooling off period. Which means, once you sign the box acknowledging this, and the bottom line on the contract. It's Yours. They do not have to do anything about it. It says quite a bit about Carlsen. Now as long as they maintain this standard, all will be good. But if this was in response to some bad press they have been recieving lately.....BTW '05 rock!!!!

mmboost

iTrader: (2)

Actually Carlsen didn't come through for you. In the end Carlsen will be making the most off this deal. Like other's have said, not only are they going to turn around the resell the '04 and hope they get away with it - to think they didn't know is perposterous! - you really didn't get such a great deal on your '05. You do realize a few things about the "invoice" you paid?

I paid $300 over invoice for my '02, after I was told I was going to pay $350 when I ordered my car. Sure I was happy to pay $50 less, but is it any skin off of Carlsen's back? No. Do you know why? Dealerships get incentives from the manufacturer which end up creating two different levels of invoice price. One is the original invoice which you paid. The other is the invoice that the dealer sees after they get their discounted incentives. I would guess that their incentive went up $100, and so my cost went down $50. Now, lets translate this into your situation:

You might have walked away thinking that they made no money upfront and are really generous guys wishing to make a bad situation good, but the truth is they made a thousands of dollars on this sale and you saved a few hundred dollars at most off of what everyone else pays. Maybe they lost 200 or 300. Do you think that covers all the crap they put you through? You got the good-feelings wool pulled over your eyes a second time. My guess about what he said about the courts is complete crap. They sold you a lemon, and whatever wombatsauce says about FTC, and I agree with him for the most part, however I would doubt it covers things like misrepresenting non-original equipment or damage.

Carlsen got off way better than just easy and you got snookered into buying a new car. Screw Carlsen Sales.

jason

sireatalot

iTrader: (5)

Dude.... what's up with the downer man? ^^^^ haha Well, at least you saved a little money.

mexicanpizza

iTrader: (9)

mmmboost makes it sound like Carlsen shouldn't make any money on car sales.

oh n0's teh corp0r4tions t00k my m0n3ys!!!@

mmboost

iTrader: (2)

Everyone should make money. No one should jerk you around and then pretentd that they're helping you out in some magnanomous way... when the truth really is that you got no better deal than any joe off the street who came in to buy a new car.

That's shady... and in response this guy who started this thread is singing the praises of Carlsen. Why? He didn't get anything other than a dealership trying to cover their *** for as little compensation as possible. There was nothing magnanomous about what Carlsen did. Carlsen knew they had to take that car back. They didn't do him any favors.

jason

Rat

iTrader: (12)

In this particular situation Carlsen should have bent over backwards to fix THEIR mistake. Of course a business should make money, if they deserve too. When I make a mistake in my business I own it and make sure that I do anything I can to make my client happy.


Well, almost anything

sireatalot

iTrader: (5)

What's your business Rat?

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

It's a used car, so the only thing there would ever be ground to stand on with is a salvage title that wasn't advertised. Otherwise, it's a used car and whatever damage it has, visible or otherwise, is part of the deal. Shoddy body work on the door is one thing, what if it has engine problems or.. Or.. You see what I mean?

Incidentally, when I was there learning another dishonest, seedy side of Carlsen, I noticed "ipozestu's" '04 was there for sale again on the lot (saw it at the dent day when Justin found the damage). Round 2 anyone?

-Jacob