Flying Lizard ALMS Porsche Driver deserves to be banned (awesome video)
10-12-2009, 12:15 PM
#31
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is legal for the Porsche to make a move to protect his position. Now if the Corvette faked left and then right and the Porsche blocked left then right, then that would be illegal. Not nice? Yeah. Douchey? Maybe. I think I would like to see history on both of these guys to see if either has a history of these kind of shenanigans.
I'm not saying the Porsche did not escort him over to the wall, but it didn't look to me like he pitted him intentionally. It looked like, to me, that the Corvette hit the wall, tried to make room, then pitted himself into the Porsche.
I'm not saying the Porsche did not escort him over to the wall, but it didn't look to me like he pitted him intentionally. It looked like, to me, that the Corvette hit the wall, tried to make room, then pitted himself into the Porsche.
10-12-2009, 12:52 PM
#32
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10-12-2009, 01:23 PM
#33
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I think it was Deja-Vu for Bergmeister in the Porsche: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvz1XcVmJeU&feature=fvw
10-12-2009, 02:20 PM
#35
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what that video does not show you was the previous lap that the Vette used pit lane to pass the Porsche and then the track steward called to allow the Porsche to retake the position due to an illegal pass.. so the stage was set.
outbreaking =/= going hot into a turn and trying to hold the outside line, and not being able to do so.
Vette goes hot into turn one and tries to pass on the outside, takes up the Porsche's line and gets knocked for it, nothing wrong there, he was trying to be aggressive and could not pull it off.
holds him off till turn 11 and then the Vette punts the Porsche and allows him to get around next to the wall. The Porsche tries to close the door but the vette hits the wall trying to get around and pitts himself against the wall and the Porsche. The Porsche has to steer away from the Vette (why he continues to go straight and not dragged into the wall with the Vette) and the one responsible for the actions end up in a crash.
It does not matter that the Vette was faster than the Porsche, this is racing. Magnusson could not wait for a clean pass and was trying to muscle his way past Bermeister instead of trying to make a good attempt.
outbreaking =/= going hot into a turn and trying to hold the outside line, and not being able to do so.
Vette goes hot into turn one and tries to pass on the outside, takes up the Porsche's line and gets knocked for it, nothing wrong there, he was trying to be aggressive and could not pull it off.
holds him off till turn 11 and then the Vette punts the Porsche and allows him to get around next to the wall. The Porsche tries to close the door but the vette hits the wall trying to get around and pitts himself against the wall and the Porsche. The Porsche has to steer away from the Vette (why he continues to go straight and not dragged into the wall with the Vette) and the one responsible for the actions end up in a crash.
It does not matter that the Vette was faster than the Porsche, this is racing. Magnusson could not wait for a clean pass and was trying to muscle his way past Bermeister instead of trying to make a good attempt.
10-12-2009, 02:28 PM
#36
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Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwXugrQXaM
watch him wreck him at the end.How can the guy not be banned from racing, and it appears hes not even penalized.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwXugrQXaM
watch him wreck him at the end.How can the guy not be banned from racing, and it appears hes not even penalized.
Corvette driver got what it deserved. ALMS Porsche driver was just protecting himself.
10-12-2009, 03:15 PM
#38
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Both drivers are def wrong, the vette shouldn't have bumped him in the end like that... The first contact through turn 1 wasn't bad at all and was the result of the vette trying to pass, but the bump through the last turn was from frustration I think, but it DID NOT mean it was OK for the porsche drive to purposely drive the vette into the left wall like that! He could have just made a bit of contact to tell the vette that he was there, but he didn't have to go the extra mile to screw the vette driver from a first place finish.
10-12-2009, 03:23 PM
#39
nope nope.
Sorry you guys don't know the rules apparently. What gives him the right to hold his position this isn't nascar? He sees the vette has a path to go around him being in the faster car and he decides he rather wreck the guy than let him race.people move over when there is a faster car behind. Also They have already spoken out against it.
Have you guys ever seen a whole race???
This was a 4hr race, you didn't see the whole thing. You don't slow your own laptime down to wreck somebody else WHO IS IN A DIFFERENT CLASS. You can edge someone out, not steer them off the track.
Unfortunately you must not know about LEMANS races, as it's very obvious to me and many people on the forums the PORSCHE was parking, which is braking harder than he needs too in an attempt to **** up the corvette, thats why he got bumped.
Also anybody who knows anything about racing would be even more disgusted since the porsche place was secure for season standing, he is in gt2 vs. the corvettes gt1 (corvette is faster).
I'm going to bet 25 dollars on the fact Bergmeister isn't back at Laguna Seca for a long while.
I don't see how you could think the corvette is at fault? Because you saw 1 lap? instead of the whole race?
Sorry you guys don't know the rules apparently. What gives him the right to hold his position this isn't nascar? He sees the vette has a path to go around him being in the faster car and he decides he rather wreck the guy than let him race.people move over when there is a faster car behind. Also They have already spoken out against it.
Have you guys ever seen a whole race???
This was a 4hr race, you didn't see the whole thing. You don't slow your own laptime down to wreck somebody else WHO IS IN A DIFFERENT CLASS. You can edge someone out, not steer them off the track.
Unfortunately you must not know about LEMANS races, as it's very obvious to me and many people on the forums the PORSCHE was parking, which is braking harder than he needs too in an attempt to **** up the corvette, thats why he got bumped.
Also anybody who knows anything about racing would be even more disgusted since the porsche place was secure for season standing, he is in gt2 vs. the corvettes gt1 (corvette is faster).
I'm going to bet 25 dollars on the fact Bergmeister isn't back at Laguna Seca for a long while.
I don't see how you could think the corvette is at fault? Because you saw 1 lap? instead of the whole race?
Last edited by slow04wrx; 10-12-2009 at 03:28 PM.
10-12-2009, 03:40 PM
#40
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nope nope.
Sorry you guys don't know the rules apparently. What gives him the right to hold his position this isn't nascar? He sees the vette has a path to go around him being in the faster car and he decides he rather wreck the guy than let him race.people move over when there is a faster car behind. Also They have already spoken out against it.
Have you guys ever seen a whole race???
This was a 4hr race, you didn't see the whole thing. You don't slow your own laptime down to wreck somebody else WHO IS IN A DIFFERENT CLASS. You can edge someone out, not steer them off the track.
Unfortunately you must not know about LEMANS races, as it's very obvious to me and many people on the forums the PORSCHE was parking, which is braking harder than he needs too in an attempt to **** up the corvette, thats why he got bumped.
Also anybody who knows anything about racing would be even more disgusted since the porsche place was secure for season standing, he is in gt2 vs. the corvettes gt1 (corvette is faster).
I'm going to bet 25 dollars on the fact Bergmeister isn't back at Laguna Seca for a long while.
I don't see how you could think the corvette is at fault? Because you saw 1 lap? instead of the whole race?
Sorry you guys don't know the rules apparently. What gives him the right to hold his position this isn't nascar? He sees the vette has a path to go around him being in the faster car and he decides he rather wreck the guy than let him race.people move over when there is a faster car behind. Also They have already spoken out against it.
Have you guys ever seen a whole race???
This was a 4hr race, you didn't see the whole thing. You don't slow your own laptime down to wreck somebody else WHO IS IN A DIFFERENT CLASS. You can edge someone out, not steer them off the track.
Unfortunately you must not know about LEMANS races, as it's very obvious to me and many people on the forums the PORSCHE was parking, which is braking harder than he needs too in an attempt to **** up the corvette, thats why he got bumped.
Also anybody who knows anything about racing would be even more disgusted since the porsche place was secure for season standing, he is in gt2 vs. the corvettes gt1 (corvette is faster).
I'm going to bet 25 dollars on the fact Bergmeister isn't back at Laguna Seca for a long while.
I don't see how you could think the corvette is at fault? Because you saw 1 lap? instead of the whole race?
er.. that was the finish for the GT2 class, they were not in different classes.
http://www.corvetteracing.com/
Originally Posted by corvetteracing.com
Monterey Sports Car Championships GT2 Results:
Pos./Drivers/Car/Laps
1. Bergmeister/Long, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 155
2. O'Connell/Magnussen, Chevrolet Corvette C6.R, 155
3. Henzler/Ehret, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 154
4. Farnbacher/James, Panoz Esperante GTLM, 154
5. Van Overbeek/Neiman, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 153
6. Mueller/Milner, BMW E92 M3, 153
7. Westbrook/Stuck, Porsche 9111 GT3 RSR, 153
8. Sellers/Cicero, Porsche 9111 GT3 RSR, 150
9. Sutherland/Drissi/Gigliotti, Corvette, 150
10. Gavin/Beretta, Chevrolet Corvette C6.R, 143
11. Robertson/Robertson/Murry, Ford GT MK 7, 139
12. Melo/Kaffer, Ferrari 430 GT, 49
13. Gentilozzi/Goosens, Jaguar XKR, 46
14. Hand/Auberlen, BMW E92 M3, 3
Pos./Drivers/Car/Laps
1. Bergmeister/Long, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 155
2. O'Connell/Magnussen, Chevrolet Corvette C6.R, 155
3. Henzler/Ehret, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 154
4. Farnbacher/James, Panoz Esperante GTLM, 154
5. Van Overbeek/Neiman, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 153
6. Mueller/Milner, BMW E92 M3, 153
7. Westbrook/Stuck, Porsche 9111 GT3 RSR, 153
8. Sellers/Cicero, Porsche 9111 GT3 RSR, 150
9. Sutherland/Drissi/Gigliotti, Corvette, 150
10. Gavin/Beretta, Chevrolet Corvette C6.R, 143
11. Robertson/Robertson/Murry, Ford GT MK 7, 139
12. Melo/Kaffer, Ferrari 430 GT, 49
13. Gentilozzi/Goosens, Jaguar XKR, 46
14. Hand/Auberlen, BMW E92 M3, 3
10-12-2009, 03:44 PM
#41
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Yeah, they most certainly are in the same class. I was at the race in question. Bergmeister is allowed to keep a car in the same class from passing. That's part of racing. Yes, things got ugly at the end but that doesn't mean it wasn't still part of the race.
Neither driver was doing everything by the rules. They both got ugly at the end. It happened. Everyone will probably move on.
Please read this again;
Neither driver was doing everything by the rules. They both got ugly at the end. It happened. Everyone will probably move on.
Please read this again;
GT2: An Actual Fight to the Finish
The racing in GT2 was not not so clean. Jörg Bermeister and Jan Magnusson’s epic last-lap struggle, while exciting, was not in keeping with the driving standards set by the Americans Le Mans Series.
Bergmeister, driving the #45 Flying Lizard Porsche RSR, had already won the series, but he wanted to win the race. Jan Magnusson in the Corvette Racing Corvette C wanted equally to win, and he had a faster car. However, Bergmeister was ahead of him, and was doing everything the rules allowed to keep the Corvette from passing.
As the end of the race neared, Magnusson resorted to swerving onto pit lane to get past the Porsche, but the race stewards radioed to him that he had to give back the position, because he made the pass by using an illegal shortcut.
More frustrated than ever, Magnusson rammed Bergmeister coming into the final turn of the final lap. While Bergmeister struggled to control his car, Magnusson pushed past on the inside.
Unwilling to be beaten by such tactics, Bergmeister responded by pushing Magnusson towards the inside wall. Magnusson had to turn sharply to avoid hitting the wall, and this sent him spinning across the track and headfirst into the outside wall with enough force to lift the back of the car completely off the track.
“I was clear ahead going into the last corner, and he just drilled me,” Jörg Bergmeister explained. “I didn’t want it to end like that but he started it and I wasn’t giving that one away.”
Magnusson was not injured, and the stewards chose not to penalize the drivers. Hopefully, something will be said after the season ends; this kind of driving, while accepted in some series, has no place in the American Le Mans Series.
The racing in GT2 was not not so clean. Jörg Bermeister and Jan Magnusson’s epic last-lap struggle, while exciting, was not in keeping with the driving standards set by the Americans Le Mans Series.
Bergmeister, driving the #45 Flying Lizard Porsche RSR, had already won the series, but he wanted to win the race. Jan Magnusson in the Corvette Racing Corvette C wanted equally to win, and he had a faster car. However, Bergmeister was ahead of him, and was doing everything the rules allowed to keep the Corvette from passing.
As the end of the race neared, Magnusson resorted to swerving onto pit lane to get past the Porsche, but the race stewards radioed to him that he had to give back the position, because he made the pass by using an illegal shortcut.
More frustrated than ever, Magnusson rammed Bergmeister coming into the final turn of the final lap. While Bergmeister struggled to control his car, Magnusson pushed past on the inside.
Unwilling to be beaten by such tactics, Bergmeister responded by pushing Magnusson towards the inside wall. Magnusson had to turn sharply to avoid hitting the wall, and this sent him spinning across the track and headfirst into the outside wall with enough force to lift the back of the car completely off the track.
“I was clear ahead going into the last corner, and he just drilled me,” Jörg Bergmeister explained. “I didn’t want it to end like that but he started it and I wasn’t giving that one away.”
Magnusson was not injured, and the stewards chose not to penalize the drivers. Hopefully, something will be said after the season ends; this kind of driving, while accepted in some series, has no place in the American Le Mans Series.
10-12-2009, 04:39 PM
#43
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I've got news for you - cars were getting buried and taken out of races due to going off in 11 all weekend. You try to punt me into the kitty litter off 11 on the last lap of the last race of the season and end my race out of the points and you're damn right I'm not going to let you get away with it.
Might have been some bareknuckle racing, but the Vette got what was coming to him for trying to take out the leader on the last corner. All of you guys saying the Vette was faster....tell me again how that works when the RSR was in first at the end of the race? He just ended up there magically?
Flying Lizard guys just gave better than they got. If the Vette hadn't punched the Porsche in the last corner, he wouldn't have had the line to try to pull ahead, either....
Might have been some bareknuckle racing, but the Vette got what was coming to him for trying to take out the leader on the last corner. All of you guys saying the Vette was faster....tell me again how that works when the RSR was in first at the end of the race? He just ended up there magically?
Flying Lizard guys just gave better than they got. If the Vette hadn't punched the Porsche in the last corner, he wouldn't have had the line to try to pull ahead, either....
10-12-2009, 04:43 PM
#44
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i'm no racing driver, but i think that what happened in the last lap seems just a racing incident. bumping in to someone in the middle of the turn is a douchy move to make but hey its racing. however if u rewatch video as many other people has pointed the Bergmeister actually did give Magnusson room. And yes escorting to someone to the wall is legal, cuz thats Bergmeister's selected line. If i'm not mistaken your allowed to make one move to defend your line and that was Bergmeister's one move
10-12-2009, 04:49 PM
#45
Yeah, they most certainly are in the same class. I was at the race in question. Bergmeister is allowed to keep a car in the same class from passing. That's part of racing. Yes, things got ugly at the end but that doesn't mean it wasn't still part of the race.
Neither driver was doing everything by the rules. They both got ugly at the end. It happened. Everyone will probably move on.
Please read this again;
Neither driver was doing everything by the rules. They both got ugly at the end. It happened. Everyone will probably move on.
Please read this again;