FBI is now investigating Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman Brothers, AIG
09-26-2008, 09:25 AM
#106
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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But in that model the incentive shifts purely to short term gains, because if your executives can pull a fast one and cash out while things are rosy- who cares what happens when the $h1t hits the fan? Take WaMu- 3 months ago their FAILING CEO got shown the door but with something like a 30 million golden parachute, and today JP Morgan bought my mortgage along with everything else on WM's books for the equivalent of about 1 cent on the dollar- who do you think is laughing all the way to the bank?
Paying in stock options should be a step in the right direction, but those options should be forced to be held, and again I'd say they need to be scaled in relation to the average worker as well.
In nearly every other civilized country on the planet- executive compensation ranges from 10-20 times average workers, in banana republics like Venezuela that ratio runs up to like 50 times but here in the US its nearly 500 times.
That is simply not sustainable.
Paying in stock options should be a step in the right direction, but those options should be forced to be held, and again I'd say they need to be scaled in relation to the average worker as well.
In nearly every other civilized country on the planet- executive compensation ranges from 10-20 times average workers, in banana republics like Venezuela that ratio runs up to like 50 times but here in the US its nearly 500 times.
That is simply not sustainable.
09-26-2008, 09:28 AM
#107
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And it happens on a grand scale every day, and apart from Martha Stewart getting her hand slapped and having to spend a few months in a resort prison- I don't hear much about any enforcement of insider trading restrictions whatsoever, especially since the big drive to deregulation we've had this last 10 years or so...
09-26-2008, 09:29 AM
#108
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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I don't agree, only because I hate the stock market. The stock market drives companies to cut corners, abuse workers, ship offshore... The stock market is why we are going to hurt in the future. It creates the corporate system, it's drives these corporations to be cut throat for that bottom end, every penny is become shareholder wealth.
Companies cut corners, risking safety, risking quality, risking nearly everything, just to make that stock go up.
People are stupid. People "invest" in the stock market cause they think they can make quick money and they lose, most people lose big time. Only the wealthiest people know the system, know how to manipulate the system, know the ins and outs. How are regular, stupid folks going to get themselves out of it or play against the big players? They can't, and that's one way the Rich get richer and the rest of us get poorer.
The corporate system is to blame, not Greenspan. Yes, he set everything up for cheap credit, but these mortgage companies didn't have to loan out the money... They were making so much already simply from the sheer quantity of home buyers, the quantity of loans... but that's not enough, they allowed people, the same, dumb, stupid people, to lie about their incomes, and they knew it, and they gave out loans like samples at costco...
To blame any one or few people doesn't cut it, it's the corporate structure to blame. and this is NOT capitalism, you know that Kevin, you know it's not. It's pure manipulation of capitalism, it's hiding behind the protections given to corporations, and it's greed. Greed...
Companies cut corners, risking safety, risking quality, risking nearly everything, just to make that stock go up.
People are stupid. People "invest" in the stock market cause they think they can make quick money and they lose, most people lose big time. Only the wealthiest people know the system, know how to manipulate the system, know the ins and outs. How are regular, stupid folks going to get themselves out of it or play against the big players? They can't, and that's one way the Rich get richer and the rest of us get poorer.
The corporate system is to blame, not Greenspan. Yes, he set everything up for cheap credit, but these mortgage companies didn't have to loan out the money... They were making so much already simply from the sheer quantity of home buyers, the quantity of loans... but that's not enough, they allowed people, the same, dumb, stupid people, to lie about their incomes, and they knew it, and they gave out loans like samples at costco...
To blame any one or few people doesn't cut it, it's the corporate structure to blame. and this is NOT capitalism, you know that Kevin, you know it's not. It's pure manipulation of capitalism, it's hiding behind the protections given to corporations, and it's greed. Greed...
09-26-2008, 09:30 AM
#109
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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And it happens on a grand scale every day, and apart from Martha Stewart getting her hand slapped and having to spend a few months in a resort prison- I don't hear much about any enforcement of insider trading restrictions whatsoever, especially since the big drive to deregulation we've had this last 10 years or so...
09-26-2008, 09:30 AM
#110
Old School
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I'm for open markets, but man, do people abuse them 
Enron abused deregulated energy, and ****ed us in CA...
It's hard to want to believe that open markets will work when you have corporations time and time again abuse that freedom.
Enron abused deregulated energy, and ****ed us in CA...
It's hard to want to believe that open markets will work when you have corporations time and time again abuse that freedom.
09-26-2008, 09:43 AM
#111
And it happens on a grand scale every day, and apart from Martha Stewart getting her hand slapped and having to spend a few months in a resort prison- I don't hear much about any enforcement of insider trading restrictions whatsoever, especially since the big drive to deregulation we've had this last 10 years or so...
70k in fines for making 5k
09-26-2008, 09:48 AM
#113
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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Look at the air travel insudtry right now too. Deregulated and turned to ****. Im all for capitalism, but the government needs to intervene a regulate certain industries to avoid another meltdown like we are experienceing now.
09-26-2008, 10:15 AM
#115
banned
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My point is that in these new fancy economic times, ethics is all that holds businesses to playing by the established tenants of either paradigm. Since there seems to be a lack of ethics in modern business and an abundance of greed. The classical models of laissez faire & regulation need some updating to deal with such a factor.
09-26-2008, 10:23 AM
#117
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But especially with today's energy "crisis" public transportation and alternative sustainable energy development really should be national priorities for getting on a more positive economic direction.
09-26-2008, 11:11 AM
#119
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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Yes my jew, you do know it all =p
My point is that in these new fancy economic times, ethics is all that holds businesses to playing by the established tenants of either paradigm. Since there seems to be a lack of ethics in modern business and an abundance of greed. The classical models of laissez faire & regulation need some updating to deal with such a factor.
My point is that in these new fancy economic times, ethics is all that holds businesses to playing by the established tenants of either paradigm. Since there seems to be a lack of ethics in modern business and an abundance of greed. The classical models of laissez faire & regulation need some updating to deal with such a factor.