Do any Bay Area Tuners support AccessTUNER Race?
08-29-2008, 02:46 PM
#16
banned
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walnut Creek Ca..
Posts: 2,746
Car Info: heel'n toe da hoe...
They can even use free tools to log the ECU with the file loaded on.
The tuning world has a similar option in the OpenSource offerings. Its not as user friendly, and it may take you a long time to figure things out and learn how things work, but that's the price you pay for doing it yourself.
Thanks
The tuning world has a similar option in the OpenSource offerings. Its not as user friendly, and it may take you a long time to figure things out and learn how things work, but that's the price you pay for doing it yourself.
Thanks
2. When was the last time you used romraider? Its really easy. Still the same learning curve as when you learned Cobb AP. Thats going to be with anyone. Depends on if you have the time or not to learn.
I think the market as it used to be is no longer for Cobb. I also think soon we will see the tuner market begin to fail. As more and more get pissed off. Just like that happen to ecutek.
08-29-2008, 02:53 PM
#17
banned
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walnut Creek Ca..
Posts: 2,746
Car Info: heel'n toe da hoe...
Oh and if anyone wants to look up os tuning.
http://www.romraider.com
http://forums.openecu.org
If you have any questions you can pm me.
http://www.romraider.com
http://forums.openecu.org
If you have any questions you can pm me.
08-29-2008, 03:02 PM
#19
banned
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walnut Creek Ca..
Posts: 2,746
Car Info: heel'n toe da hoe...
Wait and see if you cant see it happening already. Also I can log your tune so well now days with logging tools I could copy your map straight from the log files.
Not that I need to do or ever would.
So your not hiding much by "locking" the ecu.
I think if your a good tuner it should not matter, If your good you will always has people coming.
Not that I need to do or ever would.
So your not hiding much by "locking" the ecu.
I think if your a good tuner it should not matter, If your good you will always has people coming.
08-29-2008, 03:07 PM
#20
BanHammer™
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Wagonmafia Propaganda Lieutenant
Posts: 47,588
Car Info: 2001 Forester RS2 SPEC-F
I really hope people start to sue tuners when motors blow. You want it locked? Well here is a rental bill, repair bill, OH and here is sam, He works for the B.A.R. Well sam its locked you see...Sir I had no way to adjust it. He touched it last. (points at tuner...)
Thats a very double edged knife...
I also know a legal movement that is forming to bring this up in court in the future. I think it needs to be done myself.
Thats a very double edged knife...
I also know a legal movement that is forming to bring this up in court in the future. I think it needs to be done myself.
08-29-2008, 03:10 PM
#21
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Wait and see if you cant see it happening already. Also I can log your tune so well now days with logging tools I could copy your map straight from the log files.
Not that I need to do or ever would.
So your not hiding much by "locking" the ecu.
I think if your a good tuner it should not matter, If your good you will always has people coming.
Not that I need to do or ever would.
So your not hiding much by "locking" the ecu.
I think if your a good tuner it should not matter, If your good you will always has people coming.
08-29-2008, 03:13 PM
#23
I really hope people start to sue tuners when motors blow. You want it locked? Well here is a rental bill, repair bill, OH and here is sam, He works for the B.A.R. Well sam its locked you see...Sir I had no way to adjust it. He touched it last. (points at tuner...)
Thats a very double edged knife...
I also know a legal movement that is forming to bring this up in court in the future. I think it needs to be done myself.
Thats a very double edged knife...
I also know a legal movement that is forming to bring this up in court in the future. I think it needs to be done myself.
So basically you're proposing the tuner be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he doesn't give you access to his work you point the finger at him if something goes awry. If he does give you access to change his work he risks you pointing the finger at him when your tinkering makes something go boom and/or he risks someone distributing his map for free to others in Bum**** USA who aren't local/too cheap to pay for a custom tune.
Wait and see if you cant see it happening already. Also I can log your tune so well now days with logging tools I could copy your map straight from the log files.
Not that I need to do or ever would.
So your not hiding much by "locking" the ecu.
I think if your a good tuner it should not matter, If your good you will always has people coming.
Not that I need to do or ever would.
So your not hiding much by "locking" the ecu.
I think if your a good tuner it should not matter, If your good you will always has people coming.
Heres the thing about the latter statement, people are ****ing cheap. Bottom line. They'll risk their car to save a few hundred bucks if they can, so if people are distributing tuners maps freely, of course those fence sitters are going to go for the cheap option.
****, go look at some journals on IWSTI and see the garbage parts people throw on their cars. Also go look in the ECU forums at people *****ing at COBB because they didn't release 20 different maps for free to meet all the separate variations of a Stage 2 setup.
Tuners releasing their Race maps is bad for their reputation and their business.
08-29-2008, 03:32 PM
#25
banned
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walnut Creek Ca..
Posts: 2,746
Car Info: heel'n toe da hoe...
Thats pretty ****ty any way you slice it. The customer should have done his or her homework on the person they're allowing to modify their car. Also, I think you need to accept the fact that anytime you modify the ECU from it's factory settings you are running it outside of its intended parameters. With that should come the acceptance that things sometimes go wrong. You pay to play.
And those were LOCKED ecu's and NO cheap parts...
So basically you're proposing the tuner be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he doesn't give you access to his work you point the finger at him if something goes awry. If he does give you access to change his work he risks you pointing the finger at him when your tinkering makes something go boom and/or he risks someone distributing his map for free to others in Bum**** USA who aren't local/too cheap to pay for a custom tune.
Heres the thing about the latter statement, people are ****ing cheap. Bottom line. They'll risk their car to save a few hundred bucks if they can, so if people are distributing tuners maps freely, of course those fence sitters are going to go for the cheap option.
****, go look at some journals on IWSTI and see the garbage parts people throw on their cars. Also go look in the ECU forums at people *****ing at COBB because they didn't release 20 different maps for free to meet all the separate variations of a Stage 2 setup.
Tuners releasing their Race maps is bad for their reputation and their business.
****, go look at some journals on IWSTI and see the garbage parts people throw on their cars. Also go look in the ECU forums at people *****ing at COBB because they didn't release 20 different maps for free to meet all the separate variations of a Stage 2 setup.
Tuners releasing their Race maps is bad for their reputation and their business.
Tuners should not worry about their business if they are good. I'd spend $1200 on a ecutek tune from a tuner because I know its going to be good. If your good it doesnt matter how much to a point you can charge..
If your out for a quick buck? Then yeah.... lock it up and force the market. But watch out for the backlash.
Copying is the best form of flattery?
We all know that sharing maps is retarded. You will most certainly end up buying a new motor. You just cant cut and paste or reflash a protune from someone elses car. Thats just plain dumb..
I'm surprised that Cobb has not started to force the tuners to release rt maps. But I knew that was not going to happen since the 1st day I heard about the racer tuner...
Cobbs learning a hard lesson anyway you look at it.
08-29-2008, 03:35 PM
#26
banned
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walnut Creek Ca..
Posts: 2,746
Car Info: heel'n toe da hoe...
Ah no. The shop that installed the parts and or tuned the car, More then likey will get a huge fine. If not shut down.
The BAR doesnt f around with this stuff. All the car owner has to say is I didnt know and the shop that sold it to me said it was ok.
Blame goes to the shop..... 89% of the time. I know this very well.
The BAR doesnt f around with this stuff. All the car owner has to say is I didnt know and the shop that sold it to me said it was ok.
Blame goes to the shop..... 89% of the time. I know this very well.
08-29-2008, 03:39 PM
#27
banned
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walnut Creek Ca..
Posts: 2,746
Car Info: heel'n toe da hoe...
Ah no. The shop that installed the parts and or tuned the car, More then likey will get a huge fine. If not shut down.
The BAR doesnt f around with this stuff. All the car owner has to say is I didnt know and the shop that sold it to me said it was ok.
Blame goes to the shop..... 89% of the time. I know this very well.
The BAR doesnt f around with this stuff. All the car owner has to say is I didnt know and the shop that sold it to me said it was ok.
Blame goes to the shop..... 89% of the time. I know this very well.
Even if it says race use only. Even on the RO... You still get tagged for installing the part. And if you dont list the part on the RO or "do a free install" Still needs to be on the RO.
Signed RO by the customer.
As a tuning shop you are really screwed now days... Glad I'm not in the mess...
08-29-2008, 03:39 PM
#28
banned
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal, SF East Bay
Posts: 1,456
Car Info: 2007 WRX Limited | vf43'D
But you don't see Microsoft handing out the source code to Windows right? This is a much more appropriate analogy. I'm more than happy to send a customer his .ptm file if they misplace it or lose it. IMO that tuned file is theirs to keep and backup, etc. They can load this file onto their AP and flash to their ECU all they want. They can even use free tools to log the ECU with the file loaded on. This is equivalent to getting a windows CD and keeping it. Now asking us to provide the race format of the tune is analogous to asking Microsoft for the source code to Windows.
Say I don't quite like the interface and want to make a couple tweaks... I go to Microsoft and ask them for the source code to Windows... they laugh at me. If I want to truly customize my operating system and mess around with it, I'd go to an open source option like Linux, spend a ridiculous amount of time figuring things out and learning how to modify it, and maybe eventually make the tweaks I wanted. Most likely, however, I'll just keep using windows
.
Thanks
Say I don't quite like the interface and want to make a couple tweaks... I go to Microsoft and ask them for the source code to Windows... they laugh at me. If I want to truly customize my operating system and mess around with it, I'd go to an open source option like Linux, spend a ridiculous amount of time figuring things out and learning how to modify it, and maybe eventually make the tweaks I wanted. Most likely, however, I'll just keep using windows
.Thanks
08-29-2008, 03:45 PM
#29
banned
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walnut Creek Ca..
Posts: 2,746
Car Info: heel'n toe da hoe...
hahaha..... But its still my my work.. And you cant have it...
I wonder how many free computers with windows Bill Gates has given away this year..
I dont see any tuners giving out free maps..
08-29-2008, 03:46 PM
#30
I know someone that did do their homework and got screwed big by a local tuner.... But when people are not allowed to express their feelings about said tuners you cant really do homework then can you? I know a few people have been burned at the stake for even speaking about what happen to them.
And those were LOCKED ecu's and NO cheap parts...
If you want the control to lock a out people. Then you have to be held for any mistakes. You got to pay to play remember..
People are cheap... And our ecomomy is not helping.... Thats why I can forcast people bailing from cobb like everyone did from ecutek.
Tuners should not worry about their business if they are good. I'd spend $1200 on a ecutek tune from a tuner because I know its going to be good. If your good it doesnt matter how much to a point you can charge..
If your out for a quick buck? Then yeah.... lock it up and force the market. But watch out for the backlash.
Copying is the best form of flattery?
We all know that sharing maps is retarded. You will most certainly end up buying a new motor. You just cant cut and paste or reflash a protune from someone elses car. Thats just plain dumb..
I'm surprised that Cobb has not started to force the tuners to release rt maps. But I knew that was not going to happen since the 1st day I heard about the racer tuner...
Cobbs learning a hard lesson anyway you look at it.
And those were LOCKED ecu's and NO cheap parts...
If you want the control to lock a out people. Then you have to be held for any mistakes. You got to pay to play remember..
People are cheap... And our ecomomy is not helping.... Thats why I can forcast people bailing from cobb like everyone did from ecutek.
Tuners should not worry about their business if they are good. I'd spend $1200 on a ecutek tune from a tuner because I know its going to be good. If your good it doesnt matter how much to a point you can charge..
If your out for a quick buck? Then yeah.... lock it up and force the market. But watch out for the backlash.
Copying is the best form of flattery?
We all know that sharing maps is retarded. You will most certainly end up buying a new motor. You just cant cut and paste or reflash a protune from someone elses car. Thats just plain dumb..
I'm surprised that Cobb has not started to force the tuners to release rt maps. But I knew that was not going to happen since the 1st day I heard about the racer tuner...
Cobbs learning a hard lesson anyway you look at it.
I think to say tuners are "out for a quick buck" by simply protecting their work is a bit unfair, theres more to it than that.
COBB could have avoided all this crap by simply releasing a data logging program. COBB customers are then happy, and if they want to tweak their ECU COBB can tell them to go pound sand over to RomRaider.
OT: are you the guy with the silver STi that goes to AutoHQ, had a thread about you a few months back?