Do any Bay Area Tuners support AccessTUNER Race?

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Old 08-28-2008, 04:01 PM
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Do any Bay Area Tuners support AccessTUNER Race?

I want to have my STI tuned and at the end of the tune I would like a copy of the map in AccessTUNER Race format. Where can I go?

I have been tuned by Ed of EQ Tuning twice in the past but he is ignoring all my emails and calls on the subject.

Anyone know if GST is on board?

Thanks

Links:
CobbTuning.com - AccessTUNER Race (BETA) (StreetTUNER for AP v2 for FREE )
IWSTI - ATR - How tuners feel?
IWSTI - Cobb raceTUNER!!!for freeeeeeee
NASIOC - Access Tuner Race FREE!!!
NASIOC - Cobb Street (Race) Tuner for Free? !!!
NASIOC - COBB IS LOCKING YOUR ECU W/APv2

Last edited by jagstyle; 08-28-2008 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:20 PM
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given how new the software is and since it is still in BETA form, I doubt ANY tuners are currently using it. Also, I know most tuners will not touch another tuners maps, and most likely will not allow the customer to touch the map either. Why is this?

Say I get my car tuned by Mike@GST. He gives me an ATR format file so I can screw with it too. I screw around with and blow my motor. Then I go "I got tuned by Mike and my motor blew." conveniently omitting the face that I altered the map after Mike was done.

If you want to know where GST stands on ATR (and StreetTUNER which was for the first generation AP) why don't you..........call them?
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jagstyle
I want to have my STI tuned and at the end of the tune I would like a copy of the map in AccessTUNER Race format. Where can I go?

I have been tuned by Ed of EQ Tuning twice in the past but he is ignoring all my emails and calls on the subject.

Anyone know if GST is on board?

Thanks

Links:
CobbTuning.com - AccessTUNER Race (BETA) (StreetTUNER for AP v2 for FREE )
IWSTI - ATR - How tuners feel?
IWSTI - Cobb raceTUNER!!!for freeeeeeee
NASIOC - Access Tuner Race FREE!!!
NASIOC - Cobb Street (Race) Tuner for Free? !!!
NASIOC - COBB IS LOCKING YOUR ECU W/APv2
No tuner is going to give you their map. Too many people would pull shady **** and blame the tuner in the end. Also, that tune is the intellectual property of the tuner, so what would prevent you from sharing his methods with the rest of the world?

This sets up a ****ty situation for honest people who just want to be able to data log their cars. But, we can thank COBB for not giving us a way to do that with a .ptm file.
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:22 PM
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I see this in two ways.

I give you a map...you change it & blow your engine...I get blamed.
Not gonna happen.

Think of the map as proprietary information that I own...kinda like a song...that you are licensed to use.

Any input is welcomed.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:09 PM
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I understand how tuners want to protect their "recipes". That being said :

- Customer pays tuner for the tune AND file (if using something like AccessPort to deploy tune), otherwise a CD will do....

- Tuner locks said file so customer cant blow their motor editing said file...

Everyones happy. So long as the tuner is giving the customer a tune file that is safe for 'responsible use' , then the tuner owes it to the customer in good faith to provide the file in some tangible format.

You don't see Microsoft going "okay great you installed windows, now send us the disc back".
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Lboogie
I understand how tuners want to protect their "recipes". That being said :

- Customer pays tuner for the tune AND file (if using something like AccessPort to deploy tune), otherwise a CD will do....

- Tuner locks said file so customer cant blow their motor editing said file...

Everyones happy. So long as the tuner is giving the customer a tune file that is safe for 'responsible use' , then the tuner owes it to the customer in good faith to provide the file in some tangible format.

You don't see Microsoft going "okay great you installed windows, now send us the disc back".
There are 2 different types of files. One is the race version which is editable, the other is the .ptm which the customer receives. The latter is not editable, but unfortunately to data log your car using this new software you need the race version. That is the file tuners will not be giving out to their customers.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoolin415
No tuner is going to give you their map. Too many people would pull shady **** and blame the tuner in the end. Also, that tune is the intellectual property of the tuner, so what would prevent you from sharing his methods with the rest of the world?

This sets up a ****ty situation for honest people who just want to be able to data log their cars. But, we can thank COBB for not giving us a way to do that with a .ptm file.
will the acesstuner program not allow for datalogging if you've been protuned?
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
will the acesstuner program not allow for datalogging if you've been protuned?
You need the RaceTuner map in order to utilize AccessTuner. Cobb supplies base maps (in race format) that you can tune yourself, but if you don't know how to tune you'll need the editable map that your tuner created for your car. And no tuner is going to give that up.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoolin415
You need the RaceTuner map in order to utilize AccessTuner. Cobb supplies base maps (in race format) that you can tune yourself, but if you don't know how to tune you'll need the editable map that your tuner created for your car. And no tuner is going to give that up.
Well the ATR software allows you to datalog and then upload the current map so that you can see the map information at any given point of the log. However, loading the map info isn't necissary so it seems like you should still be able to do a normal log since the log isn't going to give you map info specifically
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
Well the ATR software allows you to datalog and then upload the current map so that you can see the map information at any given point of the log. However, loading the map info isn't necissary so it seems like you should still be able to do a normal log since the log isn't going to give you map info specifically
Humm, maybe I've been misinformed. So, I can data log as long as I have their base race map uploaded only to my AccessPort? Meaning I don't have to flash my ECU with that base map in order to data log?
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jagstyle
I want to have my STI tuned and at the end of the tune I would like a copy of the map in AccessTUNER Race format. Where can I go?

I have been tuned by Ed of EQ Tuning twice in the past but he is ignoring all my emails and calls on the subject.

Anyone know if GST is on board?

Thanks

Links:
CobbTuning.com - AccessTUNER Race (BETA) (StreetTUNER for AP v2 for FREE )
IWSTI - ATR - How tuners feel?
IWSTI - Cobb raceTUNER!!!for freeeeeeee
NASIOC - Access Tuner Race FREE!!!
NASIOC - Cobb Street (Race) Tuner for Free? !!!
NASIOC - COBB IS LOCKING YOUR ECU W/APv2

Eric,

I'm sorry I have been unresponsive. This whole ATR thing caught all the Protuners by surprise and everyone is scrambling to figure out their position on the matter. Cobb gave us no notice that this was being released and certainly did not consult with us about any concerns we might have. Based on the discussions in the Protuner forums, I doubt you'll find a Protuner who will be willing to convert their tuned map into ATR format and hand it over.

I will not be giving out ATR versions of my tunes. I do completely support and urge customers to perform data logging, but giving out my maps in a format that can easily be edited, copied, and handed out, makes no sense at all for my business. We all spent countless hours developing our maps and our methods and expecting us to all of a sudden hand out our hard work is unrealistic. Both in terms of intellectual property as well as liability. It seems like all the good tuners out there share this sentiment, so I hope the public can understand our position.

If someone would like to tune their car themselves using ATR, Cobb provides some decent maps as starting points. I urge people to use these instead of asking their tuners. Even better, start with a stock map like many of us did and spend the necessary time to learn and figure out how the ECU works and what you need to do to make it run well. Tuning is by no means rocket science, but its also not as simple as plugging in a few numbers. Having to start from scratch may give people more of an appreciation for what we do and the time we've invested into our work.

FYI, I have been trying to get Cobb to release a standalone logger for quite some time now, but it doesn't look like there is a real timeline for it yet. I believe this would have been a much better move on their part. In the meantime, there are several free logging options available.

Thanks
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoolin415
Humm, maybe I've been misinformed. So, I can data log as long as I have their base race map uploaded only to my AccessPort? Meaning I don't have to flash my ECU with that base map in order to data log?
AFAIK, you can currently only log an ECU that you can connect to with live tuning. In order to connect live tuning, the base map will have to be in ATR format.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
AFAIK, you can currently only log an ECU that you can connect to with live tuning. In order to connect live tuning, the base map will have to be in ATR format.
Thanks, Ed. I had a feeling I didn't read the release notes wrong.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lboogie
You don't see Microsoft going "okay great you installed windows, now send us the disc back".
But you don't see Microsoft handing out the source code to Windows right? This is a much more appropriate analogy. I'm more than happy to send a customer his .ptm file if they misplace it or lose it. IMO that tuned file is theirs to keep and backup, etc. They can load this file onto their AP and flash to their ECU all they want. They can even use free tools to log the ECU with the file loaded on. This is equivalent to getting a windows CD and keeping it. Now asking us to provide the race format of the tune is analogous to asking Microsoft for the source code to Windows.

Say I don't quite like the interface and want to make a couple tweaks... I go to Microsoft and ask them for the source code to Windows... they laugh at me. If I want to truly customize my operating system and mess around with it, I'd go to an open source option like Linux, spend a ridiculous amount of time figuring things out and learning how to modify it, and maybe eventually make the tweaks I wanted. Most likely, however, I'll just keep using windows .

The tuning world has a similar option in the OpenSource offerings. Its not as user friendly, and it may take you a long time to figure things out and learn how things work, but that's the price you pay for doing it yourself.

Thanks
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:40 PM
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I really hope people start to sue tuners when motors blow. You want it locked? Well here is a rental bill, repair bill, OH and here is sam, He works for the B.A.R. Well sam its locked you see...Sir I had no way to adjust it. He touched it last. (points at tuner...)

Thats a very double edged knife...

I also know a legal movement that is forming to bring this up in court in the future. I think it needs to be done myself.
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