Coffee/espresso shops
04-02-2007 | 10:13 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Gibz
Being from Oregon i have to say i have yet to find coffee i like here.. Its alot weaker than in oregon and not hot enough. :/
oregon coffee good.
wish i remebered the cafe i went to back in Bend a couple years back.
:yum yum:
04-02-2007 | 10:23 AM
#18
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,198
From: I gotta have more cow bell!!!!
Car Info: 05 STi
Originally Posted by Mr_Hox
If you have the desire, give on-site roasting a try. I've done a few on some nice drum-based roasters, but for commercial use, something slightly larger is more ideal. A lot of both time, money, and effort is required in utilizing roasting in your own shop. Many batches of green coffee will be burned beyond repair before you find "your" roast, be it a city roast to a full city roast. It will take a while till you feel comfortable selling your fresh roasted coffee to your customers. Also, finding the correct buyers to find green coffee beans. Providing custom-roasting options to customers is another great way to fully customize and enhance the patron's experience.
But here's the thing: when was the last time you went into a coffee shop and noticed roasting machines? It's all about being unique. Standing out from all the other mom-and-pop espresso bars, as well as the major chains. And that last little bit, could make you...
Being that you seem fairly new to the coffee business, of course this might seem like a lot and I wouldn't want you jumping into something blind. If you have the desire to open you own coffee, do that first. Once the passion grows on you, eventually providing the freshest cup of coffee will warrant the need/want for in-house roasting. It takes quite the knowledge to become efficient in this though, so keep it as a dream for now.
And let me know if you have any other questions, as I am a bit obsessive... :-D about coffee, that is.
But here's the thing: when was the last time you went into a coffee shop and noticed roasting machines? It's all about being unique. Standing out from all the other mom-and-pop espresso bars, as well as the major chains. And that last little bit, could make you...
Being that you seem fairly new to the coffee business, of course this might seem like a lot and I wouldn't want you jumping into something blind. If you have the desire to open you own coffee, do that first. Once the passion grows on you, eventually providing the freshest cup of coffee will warrant the need/want for in-house roasting. It takes quite the knowledge to become efficient in this though, so keep it as a dream for now.
And let me know if you have any other questions, as I am a bit obsessive... :-D about coffee, that is.
Bingo!!!!! Get a roast that's specific to you. It seems the trend nowdays is the roast the beans to point of scorching them (Starbucks). I'll support a single coffee shop over a chain without question. I only do starbucks when I'm on the road and it's my only option. If you need any help I know quite a bit about coffee as it's a personal passion. Spend the money on a high traffic/good location area to keep the Joe flowing. Good luck man.
04-02-2007 | 11:52 AM
#19
My cousins that got me addicted to roasting my own coffee just opened a shop in Berkeley called Mokka. They wanted to do onsite roasting, but couldn't get the permit from the people's republic because there are lofts upstairs. I would second Mr._Hox's recommendation on the in-house roasting. Not only is it super fun, it will make you stand out from all the rest of the other coffee shops around.
I found a 1lb. fluid-bed sample roaster that was really cool looking a while back that would be perfect for individual custom roasted coffee in a shop. I will have to go through my favorites folders to see if I can find it.
My cousin's went totally ***** out on their place. They are both a bit obsessive about stuff, so I have no worries about them succeeding. It is a great business to get into, but just be aware, it's going to be a TON of work.
Here is an abbreviated list of recommendations they made to me when I asked for advice on opening a shop:
1. Make sure you REALLY want to do this.
2. Second most important thing - LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!!
3. You REALLY have to want to do it.
4. You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY have to want to do it...
5. When we talk to other coffee folks, everyone says the biggest issue is
employees... hiring, training, managing, even firing... it can be a daily
grind(harhar), so be prepared for that side of it...
6. See #1, #3, and #4.
Here are a couple of things to check out if you are really serious about this:
SCAA's annual convention in May
Coffee Fest in November
My advice? Get a good barista.
EDIT: here are some smaller roasters
http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.coffeekinetics.shtml
http://www.coffee-tech.com/ someone in the US imports these from Israel.
or see if you can track down an old two barrel Probat sample roaster.
I found a 1lb. fluid-bed sample roaster that was really cool looking a while back that would be perfect for individual custom roasted coffee in a shop. I will have to go through my favorites folders to see if I can find it.
My cousin's went totally ***** out on their place. They are both a bit obsessive about stuff, so I have no worries about them succeeding. It is a great business to get into, but just be aware, it's going to be a TON of work.
Here is an abbreviated list of recommendations they made to me when I asked for advice on opening a shop:
1. Make sure you REALLY want to do this.
2. Second most important thing - LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!!
3. You REALLY have to want to do it.
4. You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY have to want to do it...
5. When we talk to other coffee folks, everyone says the biggest issue is
employees... hiring, training, managing, even firing... it can be a daily
grind(harhar), so be prepared for that side of it...
6. See #1, #3, and #4.
Here are a couple of things to check out if you are really serious about this:
SCAA's annual convention in May
Coffee Fest in November
My advice? Get a good barista.
EDIT: here are some smaller roasters
http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.coffeekinetics.shtml
http://www.coffee-tech.com/ someone in the US imports these from Israel.
or see if you can track down an old two barrel Probat sample roaster.
Last edited by ryball; 04-02-2007 at 12:10 PM.
04-02-2007 | 01:06 PM
#20
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 524
From: San Francisco
Car Info: 02 WRX Sportwagon
Originally Posted by Inga
People love good coffee, and presenting someone with a good Gourmet Coffee gift basket with the best coffees can go a long way to make him/her love you.
_______________________________________
http://www.coffeebreakusa.com/
_______________________________________
http://www.coffeebreakusa.com/
04-02-2007 | 11:39 PM
#22
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 728
From: Seattle, WA
Car Info: 2004 Aspen White WRX
Originally Posted by ryball
My cousins that got me addicted to roasting my own coffee just opened a shop in Berkeley called Mokka. They wanted to do onsite roasting, but couldn't get the permit from the people's republic because there are lofts upstairs. I would second Mr._Hox's recommendation on the in-house roasting. Not only is it super fun, it will make you stand out from all the rest of the other coffee shops around.
I found a 1lb. fluid-bed sample roaster that was really cool looking a while back that would be perfect for individual custom roasted coffee in a shop. I will have to go through my favorites folders to see if I can find it.
My cousin's went totally ***** out on their place. They are both a bit obsessive about stuff, so I have no worries about them succeeding. It is a great business to get into, but just be aware, it's going to be a TON of work.
Here is an abbreviated list of recommendations they made to me when I asked for advice on opening a shop:
1. Make sure you REALLY want to do this.
2. Second most important thing - LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!!
3. You REALLY have to want to do it.
4. You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY have to want to do it...
5. When we talk to other coffee folks, everyone says the biggest issue is
employees... hiring, training, managing, even firing... it can be a daily
grind(harhar), so be prepared for that side of it...
6. See #1, #3, and #4.
Here are a couple of things to check out if you are really serious about this:
SCAA's annual convention in May
Coffee Fest in November
My advice? Get a good barista.
EDIT: here are some smaller roasters
http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.coffeekinetics.shtml
http://www.coffee-tech.com/ someone in the US imports these from Israel.
or see if you can track down an old two barrel Probat sample roaster.
I found a 1lb. fluid-bed sample roaster that was really cool looking a while back that would be perfect for individual custom roasted coffee in a shop. I will have to go through my favorites folders to see if I can find it.
My cousin's went totally ***** out on their place. They are both a bit obsessive about stuff, so I have no worries about them succeeding. It is a great business to get into, but just be aware, it's going to be a TON of work.
Here is an abbreviated list of recommendations they made to me when I asked for advice on opening a shop:
1. Make sure you REALLY want to do this.
2. Second most important thing - LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!!
3. You REALLY have to want to do it.
4. You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY have to want to do it...
5. When we talk to other coffee folks, everyone says the biggest issue is
employees... hiring, training, managing, even firing... it can be a daily
grind(harhar), so be prepared for that side of it...
6. See #1, #3, and #4.
Here are a couple of things to check out if you are really serious about this:
SCAA's annual convention in May
Coffee Fest in November
My advice? Get a good barista.
EDIT: here are some smaller roasters
http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.coffeekinetics.shtml
http://www.coffee-tech.com/ someone in the US imports these from Israel.
or see if you can track down an old two barrel Probat sample roaster.
Definitely can't stress enough the need for you to WANT to pursue this career. Sure, anybody can purchase an already established coffee stand, that has barista's sitting there waiting for you. But to stand out among all those tiny little shops, you have to be unique. Even harder so, is competing against the ever-popular Starbucks. (Which, ironically I work for as a District Coffee Master for Northern California.)
The thing about Starbucks that gets people in their stars is two things: image, and consistency. You go to any Starbucks, and if trained Barista's abound, your sure to get a decent cup of joe no matter where in the country you are. Right now, don't worry about image. That is for once you get established as a home-grown, coffee roasting madhouse that the locals will flock too. Don't expect tourists and passer-by's to bathe in your coffee when the stop into town. You will gain respect through word-of-mouth so TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS LIKE FRIENDS. Every time a customer has a good experience, they might tell 3-5 friends about their experience. BUT, once a customer has a horrible experience, they will tell 10-12+ people not to go to your store. Bad for business!
So, what does Starbucks not have? Roasting. I said it before, and truly think that this is where coffee maniacs will start to dig you coffee. Sure the "Starbucks Roast" is darker than most grocery-store variety beans, and mostly better. But still, nothing beats a nice, FRESHLY ROASTED pound of coffee. Coffee's best just a little over a week, allowing a few of the gases to escape the beans, but leaves them fresh and ready to be ground.
Yes, definitely plan on trying to hire some decent baristas. Bonus points if they are able to do latte/cappuccino art, and are skilled with the art of espresso. If you feel that the potential baristas are lacking, get a FULLY automatic espresso machine. These are easier to pull consistent shots on (Starbucks uses Vermissio-801 machines) and are easier for budding baristas, like yourself. SEMI-automatic machines, require the tamping and grinding of each individual shot, resulting in a higher learning curve to pull decent shots. Bonus of the semi? MUCH better tasting shots, when done right. Also, you can customize each individual shot be it long pour, short pour, or ristretto. Another bonus for coffee aficionado’s (sp?) that will make up your customers...
Wanna practice roasting for cheap, before splurging for that really fancy/expensive drum roaster? Get an old popcorn maker. You know, the one with the yellow top that spits popcorn out the topside. You can effectively roast coffee using this method, albeit the roast will take a shorter period of time due to higher temperatures, resulting in a slight "burning" of the coffee beans. PRACTICE. Listen for the first, and second pops. Based on these, you will find the correct roast.
Certain coffees like to be roasted longer/differently than others. For example, Latin American coffees have a higher acidity that can be accentuated through a lighter roast. Asia/Pacific and African beans generally roast a bit better on the darker side, killing off some of the acidity and replacing it with the earthy, bold notes so common in these beans. Learn to adapt your roasting style for each different region of beans. Nobody wants to see a nice Costa Rican coffee roasted to a Full City++ (very dark roast) that murders the acidity and dulls the brightness of the coffee's flavor.
You best learn how to cup fool! Cupping is an essential component in tasting the various roasts you discover, and allowing you to taste each roast as it goes through it's stages - letting you dial in the correct roast stage. Basically, cupping is a glorified coffee tasting that gives you the rawest, purest taste of the coffee being sampled. Try to sit in on a cupping session with a fellow coffee nerd, and learn all they know. Coffee tasting is not unlike wine tasting, and it's important to pinpoint the various characteristics hidden in each coffee. Nutty, citrusy, vibrant, bright, earthy, descriptions like that. Also, note each floral/rustic/cinnamon-like smell that accompanies the coffee. Slurp, don't drink. This will allow the coffee to roll over your toungue, deciphiring it's acidity/sweetness/sourness.
So yeah, I can most defiently go on for days but let me know if you (or anybody) would like more information on a given topic. From dealing with Conversation International (governing body for organic-certified and shade grown coffees) to finding the right grinder, I'll try to be of help...
- David (Mr Hox)
PS - Brownie points for anybody that actually read all that.
04-03-2007 | 09:17 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Mr_Hox
Definitely can't stress enough the need for you to WANT to pursue this career. Sure, anybody can purchase an already established coffee stand, that has barista's sitting there waiting for you. But to stand out among all those tiny little shops, you have to be unique. Even harder so, is competing against the ever-popular Starbucks. (Which, ironically I work for as a District Coffee Master for Northern California.)
The thing about Starbucks that gets people in their stars is two things: image, and consistency. You go to any Starbucks, and if trained Barista's abound, your sure to get a decent cup of joe no matter where in the country you are. Right now, don't worry about image. That is for once you get established as a home-grown, coffee roasting madhouse that the locals will flock too. Don't expect tourists and passer-by's to bathe in your coffee when the stop into town. You will gain respect through word-of-mouth so TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS LIKE FRIENDS. Every time a customer has a good experience, they might tell 3-5 friends about their experience. BUT, once a customer has a horrible experience, they will tell 10-12+ people not to go to your store. Bad for business!
So, what does Starbucks not have? Roasting. I said it before, and truly think that this is where coffee maniacs will start to dig you coffee. Sure the "Starbucks Roast" is darker than most grocery-store variety beans, and mostly better. But still, nothing beats a nice, FRESHLY ROASTED pound of coffee. Coffee's best just a little over a week, allowing a few of the gases to escape the beans, but leaves them fresh and ready to be ground.
Yes, definitely plan on trying to hire some decent baristas. Bonus points if they are able to do latte/cappuccino art, and are skilled with the art of espresso. If you feel that the potential baristas are lacking, get a FULLY automatic espresso machine. These are easier to pull consistent shots on (Starbucks uses Vermissio-801 machines) and are easier for budding baristas, like yourself. SEMI-automatic machines, require the tamping and grinding of each individual shot, resulting in a higher learning curve to pull decent shots. Bonus of the semi? MUCH better tasting shots, when done right. Also, you can customize each individual shot be it long pour, short pour, or ristretto. Another bonus for coffee aficionado’s (sp?) that will make up your customers...
Wanna practice roasting for cheap, before splurging for that really fancy/expensive drum roaster? Get an old popcorn maker. You know, the one with the yellow top that spits popcorn out the topside. You can effectively roast coffee using this method, albeit the roast will take a shorter period of time due to higher temperatures, resulting in a slight "burning" of the coffee beans. PRACTICE. Listen for the first, and second pops. Based on these, you will find the correct roast.
Certain coffees like to be roasted longer/differently than others. For example, Latin American coffees have a higher acidity that can be accentuated through a lighter roast. Asia/Pacific and African beans generally roast a bit better on the darker side, killing off some of the acidity and replacing it with the earthy, bold notes so common in these beans. Learn to adapt your roasting style for each different region of beans. Nobody wants to see a nice Costa Rican coffee roasted to a Full City++ (very dark roast) that murders the acidity and dulls the brightness of the coffee's flavor.
You best learn how to cup fool! Cupping is an essential component in tasting the various roasts you discover, and allowing you to taste each roast as it goes through it's stages - letting you dial in the correct roast stage. Basically, cupping is a glorified coffee tasting that gives you the rawest, purest taste of the coffee being sampled. Try to sit in on a cupping session with a fellow coffee nerd, and learn all they know. Coffee tasting is not unlike wine tasting, and it's important to pinpoint the various characteristics hidden in each coffee. Nutty, citrusy, vibrant, bright, earthy, descriptions like that. Also, note each floral/rustic/cinnamon-like smell that accompanies the coffee. Slurp, don't drink. This will allow the coffee to roll over your toungue, deciphiring it's acidity/sweetness/sourness.
So yeah, I can most defiently go on for days but let me know if you (or anybody) would like more information on a given topic. From dealing with Conversation International (governing body for organic-certified and shade grown coffees) to finding the right grinder, I'll try to be of help...
- David (Mr Hox)
PS - Brownie points for anybody that actually read all that.
The thing about Starbucks that gets people in their stars is two things: image, and consistency. You go to any Starbucks, and if trained Barista's abound, your sure to get a decent cup of joe no matter where in the country you are. Right now, don't worry about image. That is for once you get established as a home-grown, coffee roasting madhouse that the locals will flock too. Don't expect tourists and passer-by's to bathe in your coffee when the stop into town. You will gain respect through word-of-mouth so TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS LIKE FRIENDS. Every time a customer has a good experience, they might tell 3-5 friends about their experience. BUT, once a customer has a horrible experience, they will tell 10-12+ people not to go to your store. Bad for business!
So, what does Starbucks not have? Roasting. I said it before, and truly think that this is where coffee maniacs will start to dig you coffee. Sure the "Starbucks Roast" is darker than most grocery-store variety beans, and mostly better. But still, nothing beats a nice, FRESHLY ROASTED pound of coffee. Coffee's best just a little over a week, allowing a few of the gases to escape the beans, but leaves them fresh and ready to be ground.
Yes, definitely plan on trying to hire some decent baristas. Bonus points if they are able to do latte/cappuccino art, and are skilled with the art of espresso. If you feel that the potential baristas are lacking, get a FULLY automatic espresso machine. These are easier to pull consistent shots on (Starbucks uses Vermissio-801 machines) and are easier for budding baristas, like yourself. SEMI-automatic machines, require the tamping and grinding of each individual shot, resulting in a higher learning curve to pull decent shots. Bonus of the semi? MUCH better tasting shots, when done right. Also, you can customize each individual shot be it long pour, short pour, or ristretto. Another bonus for coffee aficionado’s (sp?) that will make up your customers...
Wanna practice roasting for cheap, before splurging for that really fancy/expensive drum roaster? Get an old popcorn maker. You know, the one with the yellow top that spits popcorn out the topside. You can effectively roast coffee using this method, albeit the roast will take a shorter period of time due to higher temperatures, resulting in a slight "burning" of the coffee beans. PRACTICE. Listen for the first, and second pops. Based on these, you will find the correct roast.
Certain coffees like to be roasted longer/differently than others. For example, Latin American coffees have a higher acidity that can be accentuated through a lighter roast. Asia/Pacific and African beans generally roast a bit better on the darker side, killing off some of the acidity and replacing it with the earthy, bold notes so common in these beans. Learn to adapt your roasting style for each different region of beans. Nobody wants to see a nice Costa Rican coffee roasted to a Full City++ (very dark roast) that murders the acidity and dulls the brightness of the coffee's flavor.
You best learn how to cup fool! Cupping is an essential component in tasting the various roasts you discover, and allowing you to taste each roast as it goes through it's stages - letting you dial in the correct roast stage. Basically, cupping is a glorified coffee tasting that gives you the rawest, purest taste of the coffee being sampled. Try to sit in on a cupping session with a fellow coffee nerd, and learn all they know. Coffee tasting is not unlike wine tasting, and it's important to pinpoint the various characteristics hidden in each coffee. Nutty, citrusy, vibrant, bright, earthy, descriptions like that. Also, note each floral/rustic/cinnamon-like smell that accompanies the coffee. Slurp, don't drink. This will allow the coffee to roll over your toungue, deciphiring it's acidity/sweetness/sourness.
So yeah, I can most defiently go on for days but let me know if you (or anybody) would like more information on a given topic. From dealing with Conversation International (governing body for organic-certified and shade grown coffees) to finding the right grinder, I'll try to be of help...
- David (Mr Hox)
PS - Brownie points for anybody that actually read all that.
04-03-2007 | 09:43 AM
#25
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,983
From: Los Altos
Car Info: '11 White Shelby Cobra GT 500
Originally Posted by 1reguL8NSTi
I read it. PM me for address to mail Starbucks espresso machine and gift card.
Way good on the info was quite a nice read.
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