BREAKING: tiger attack at SF zoo..

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Old 12-28-2007, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tya
this just in....the morons who run the zoo just admitted the moat wall in the tiger exhibit is 4 feet shorter than the national standard for safety, which is 8 feet shorter than what the zoo originally said it was! and add to the fact that the tiger's claws show signs of stress and wear, indicating it could have climbed out. And there is no proof whatsoever that the shoe found in the moat is the same shoe of the victim. who knows how it got there, couldve been thrown by someone else besides the vicitms. all we got here is speculation.
The investigation is intense, trust me, the cops know a lot, they just aren't telling us yet...

Also, I was watching the news yesterday and they were saying that the two survivors had been interviewed and admitted to foul play (daring each other to get closer to the tiger).
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by brucelee
The investigation is intense, trust me, the cops know a lot, they just aren't telling us yet...

Also, I was watching the news yesterday and they were saying that the two survivors had been interviewed and admitted to foul play (daring each other to get closer to the tiger).
They are indian, stupid ****ing indian kids from east san jose. They are ****ing morons, and their friend tried to save them, and he ended up dying... Those two ****ing idiots haven't even called their friends family to give condolences or to even say anything.

I'm ****ing sick and tired of these punjabi kids now-days who think they are so badass. I mean, taunting a ****ing 300lb tiger? I hope they are charged with manslaughter of their friend, who tried to divert the Tigers attention away from them. He saves their lives, and I've seen a single ounce of appreciation given to that kid's family.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by joltdudeuc
They are indian, stupid ****ing indian kids from east san jose. They are ****ing morons, and their friend tried to save them, and he ended up dying... Those two ****ing idiots haven't even called their friends family to give condolences or to even say anything.

I'm ****ing sick and tired of these punjabi kids now-days who think they are so badass. I mean, taunting a ****ing 300lb tiger? I hope they are charged with manslaughter of their friend, who tried to divert the Tigers attention away from them. He saves their lives, and I've seen a single ounce of appreciation given to that kid's family.
Whoa! WHAT!? If that's true, I'll eat my shirt!
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by brucelee
Whoa! WHAT!? If that's true, I'll eat my shirt!
Check it out

What a Tiger Sees

They're not territorial, but they react strongly to any changes in their environment.
By Sarah Kliff | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Dec 28, 2007 | Updated: 4:30 p.m. ET Dec 28, 2007

The mystery of how a tiger at the San Francisco Zoo managed to escape from its cage, kill one visitor and maul two others is getting clearer. Three days after the fatal attack, investigations by the San Francisco Police Department disclosed that the Lion House's wall was nearly four feet shorter than the height recommended by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, which accredits zoos in the United States. But another factor could have been involved: there have been reports that one of the victims provoked the tiger, named Tatiana, by dangling his legs over the exhibit wall. "If an animal is used to spectators on the other side of the barricade and someone … has their leg dangling over, that could be a problem," says Scott Lope, operations director of Big Cat Rescue, an animal sanctuary in Florida. "They could be provoked by anything out of the ordinary." Lope explains that while tigers are not particularly territorial animals, they are extremely attuned to changes in their environment. Lope, who has spent 10 years working with tigers and other big cats, spoke to NEWSWEEK's Sarah Kliff about what provokes a tiger to attack and why the number of such attacks has been on the rise for more than a decade. Excerpts:

NEWSWEEK: There have been some reports that the victim was taunting the tiger by dangling his legs over the exhibit wall. Is this something that could provoke a tiger to attack?
Scott Lope: These animals are wild. They are completely unpredictable. You don't know what might make them angry. You know that you can provoke an animal, especially a tiger. They are on the top of the food chain, so it doesn't take much to provoke them. You might say they have a bit of a shorter fuse than a deer, which would simply run away.

So taunting could have been a factor in this case?
I think it definitely increases the chance of attack. If this is an animal that is used to spectators on the other side of the barricade and someone has crossed or has their leg dangling over, that could be a problem. They could be provoked by anything out of the ordinary, whether or not it's somebody deliberately provoking them.

What is it about taunting that could provoke a tiger? Is it that they feel threatened, see prey, or is it something else?
It's more that they notice anything out of the ordinary. In the wild, they look for an animal that may be limping or one of the prey animals that might be acting differently. They notice everything. They are intelligent enough to know when people are safely behind a fence and would absolutely notice something dangling over a wall.

Do you think there's anything to do with territoriality at play here? Was the tiger trying to protect its space?
I don't think it's territoriality. They are solitary animals, so they don't really have much of a sense of territoriality. Canines travel in a big pack, but with cats, especially tigers, it's a little different. Tigers … wouldn't even live with mates unless they are actually mating.

What about a dominance relationship?
Some may come from a background where they were forced do things, like an entertainment background. That's when humans are trying to establish dominance. [Tatiana came from a zoo background. She lived in the Denver Zoo before moving to the San Francisco Zoo last December.] But the bottom line is they are so unpredictable. Even the ones that tolerate me most that I work with, all bets are off.

Your organization has tracked 530 attacks by big cats since 1990. That seems like a pretty high number. Why so many?
These attacks seem to increase each year. It's shocking to the average person. But there are no federal laws that regulate tigers or big cats. The most obvious problem is that they eat things the size of people. These are killing machines; they are predators, and almost everything about them is designed to hunt and kill. It's incredibly difficult to house and safely cage a 600-pound tiger.

Your organization often rescues tigers from private ownership. What drives people to own these animals, which pose a pretty big safety risk?
It's an ego thing. It's a desire for someone to have something that makes them unique. They have a tendency to collect many animals. It's hard for people to stop—especially if you've raised some of the animals from a cub. It makes them very popular; everyone wants to see the tiger cub and play with it. But when the animal reaches sexual maturity, then one day you can't handle them anymore, and that's when the problems start.

You often work with mature tigers. Do you ever get scared?
Absolutely. We have over a dozen, and it's a risk to work with them. Just being complacent around them could get you killed. Every day you have to be on your toes, no matter how docile they seem.

© 2007 Newsweek, Inc.
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tya
this just in....the morons who run the zoo just admitted the moat wall in the tiger exhibit is 4 feet shorter than the national standard for safety, which is 8 feet shorter than what the zoo originally said it was! and add to the fact that the tiger's claws show signs of stress and wear, indicating it could have climbed out. And there is no proof whatsoever that the shoe found in the moat is the same shoe of the victim. who knows how it got there, couldve been thrown by someone else besides the vicitms. all we got here is speculation.
YEAH! i had the 27th and 28th SJMerc right in front of me...27th said the wall was 20 feet or something...then the 28th said they revisited it and found it is 13 or some S? WTF!

Anyone that is a cat person knows what they are capable of...my housecats can jump up my 8 foot vertical retaining wall, im sure a 13 foot wall is no problem for a tiger that measures 9 feet end to end! Even saying a 20 foot wall is safe is completely idiotic. Im sure a cat could jump from corner to corner of two walls and make it up 20 feet easily.

I like the quote " in the wild, these tigers are built for strong quick kills, not their jumping ability" WELL THIS ISNT THE WILD! THIS IS THE ZOO!


Originally Posted by splinter
well its a fact his shoe was bloody in the moat and his friends mauled at cafe far from pit idk add it up how did the kids shoe end up in the tigers pit? i dunt think the tiger threw it in....y doesnt the freakin zoo have surveillance of some kind thats what i dunt understand
dang

i thought it was weird they got killed in front of the cafe...why didnt they go behind closed doors, Jurassic park style?

and yeah tranquilizer was ruled out, i didnt know it was shot at the moment of killing someone. now there are only like 399 of them in the world
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:37 PM
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This Tiger was definitely taunted and made to escape. The shoe in the moat has not been confirmed by police. Sources close to the investigation say there was a shoe. But there definitely was a bloody foot print leading away from the Tiger's pen to the cafe. As far as I can tell, the Tiger got out and the 17 yr old distracted the Tiger while the other kids ran. With probably one swipe, the Tiger cut the kids neck and he probably bled out instantly. The Tiger then followed the blood trail cause they have a memory and wanted to finish what those moron's tried to start.

And those 2 brothers were no angels. They were arrested for Public Intoxication and being disorderly with the police. They were definitely up to something. I mean, the dead kids father called those boys and asked them if his son is with them and they said no. They were morons and they are the ones who should have died. From what I can tell, the 17 yr old wasn't the one doing most of the taunting.
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:42 PM
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Sad. An awesome animal dies because of stupid people. I am assuming some info will stay behind closed doors in case they decide to prosecute.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bluwrxwgn
This Tiger was definitely taunted and made to escape. The shoe in the moat has not been confirmed by police. Sources close to the investigation say there was a shoe. But there definitely was a bloody foot print leading away from the Tiger's pen to the cafe. As far as I can tell, the Tiger got out and the 17 yr old distracted the Tiger while the other kids ran. With probably one swipe, the Tiger cut the kids neck and he probably bled out instantly. The Tiger then followed the blood trail cause they have a memory and wanted to finish what those moron's tried to start.

And those 2 brothers were no angels. They were arrested for Public Intoxication and being disorderly with the police. They were definitely up to something. I mean, the dead kids father called those boys and asked them if his son is with them and they said no. They were morons and they are the ones who should have died. From what I can tell, the 17 yr old wasn't the one doing most of the taunting.
Arrrrrrg! I want to meet those two little bastards! Gagan, you know them? Know where they live?
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by brucelee
Arrrrrrg! I want to meet those two little bastards! Gagan, you know them? Know where they live?
No, but i wish i knew where those morons lived... let look into their history this past year with the law:

Carlos's father, who said the family has hired a lawyer, on Thursday night said his son was "a hero" for trying to scare the tiger as it attacked the older friend. "I would do the same," said Carlos Sousa Sr.

In another development, Carlos' father alleged Paul Dhaliwal lied about his son's whereabouts that day. Carlos's family was worried when he failed to turn up Christmas morning to open presents and began calling friends to find out where he may be.

Carlos Sr. had called Paul Dhaliwal around 3 p.m. or 4 p.m. Christmas Day - just an hour or two before the tiger attacks. He wanted his son home to celebrate Christmas dinner with his mother.

But Dhaliwal reportedly told Sousa he hadn't seen his son for days.

"We're just so upset about that," said the victim's cousin, Christina Sousa-Habenicht, 26. "We feel we could have prevented something. We just have this huge 'What if? - what if we could have talked to him. Instead his friend lied. What kind of friend is that?"

Ever since the family found out the day after Christmas that Carlos Jr., was killed in the attack, they've been trying to reach the Dhaliwals' parents. They have left messages but the family hasn't returned their calls. Carlos Jr. considered Paul Dhaliwal one of his best friends.

"We have a lot of questions," the teenager's mother, Marilza Sousa, said Thursday. "We want to know how it happened and only the two boys can tell us."

Police said Thursday that they have spoken to the brothers at San Francisco General Hospital, where they are said to be recovering well from their injuries and are expected to be released within days. But police would not reveal what, if anything, the men told them about the tiger attack.

The Dhaliwal family remained behind closed doors at their San Jose home as reporters gathered outside. Court records indicated Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal have both been arrested on minor offenses this year.

Paul Dhaliwal was arrested for being drunk in public on March 24 after being seen allegedly drinking beer and smoking marijuana at an In-N-Out Burger on Capitol Expressway. He was sentenced to attend 10 Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

On Sept. 7, Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal were arrested in charges of public drunkenness. Paul Dhaliwal was also charged with misdemeanor resisting arrest. They have a Jan. 15 court date.


hmmm....
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by brucelee
These F*****s in front of the line, I-speed in a distant second... That'll give the tigers plenty to work with and keep them occupied for a great while.
Fixored. I just wish the tiger had killed the two accomplices too...

...too bad they're recovering. I bet they haven't learned a goddamn thing, and are going to continue to be worthless drags on society.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roo
Fixored. I just wish the tiger had killed the two accomplices too...

...too bad they're recovering. I bet they haven't learned a goddamn thing, and are going to continue to be worthless drags on society.
Oooooor ARE THEY?


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Old 12-28-2007, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Roo
Fixored. I just wish the tiger had killed the two accomplices too...
+1

I know alot of people are saying "oh but they were just some dumb teenagers, they didnt deserve that no matter how stupid they were!"
You know what, I was a stupid teenager and did some even dumber **** (seriously!) luckily Im still here, but had the worst came to be, I deserved it and I knew it, thats the name of the game. These kids ****ed up and they paid the price for their BS, its not the tigers fault, not the zoos fault, its THEIR fault, and they paid the price. One of them died and the other two learned a hard lesson, that should have been the end of it, but unfortunately, the tiger had to die, and now the zoo is in jeopardy over their stupidity. Yes it is a tragedy, but in the end, it stops with them and their actions. Zoos arent big money makers, they are usually staffed by low paid or volunteer staff that care and love all of these animals and do everything they can for them and to make them available for us to enjoy.Sure the wall could have been higher, its always easy to point out problems after the fact, but It really sucks that now they are going to get screwed even when they were doing everything within reason to keep visitors and the animals safe.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Krinkov
+1

I know alot of people are saying "oh but they were just some dumb teenagers, they didnt deserve that no matter how stupid they were!"
You know what, I was a stupid teenager and did some even dumber **** (seriously!) luckily Im still here, but had the worst came to be, I deserved it and I knew it, thats the name of the game. These kids ****ed up and they paid the price for their BS, its not the tigers fault, not the zoos fault, its THEIR fault, and they paid the price. One of them died and the other two learned a hard lesson, that should have been the end of it, but unfortunately, the tiger had to die, and now the zoo is in jeopardy over their stupidity. Yes it is a tragedy, but in the end, it stops with them and their actions. Zoos arent big money makers, they are usually staffed by low paid or volunteer staff that care and love all of these animals and do everything they can for them and to make them available for us to enjoy.Sure the wall could have been higher, its always easy to point out problems after the fact, but It really sucks that now they are going to get screwed even when they were doing everything within reason to keep visitors and the animals safe.
Well said, hombre.
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:10 PM
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too bad the SF zoo is a gun free zone...

wait... the whole city is a gun free zone... well except for criminals.
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ldivinag
too bad the SF zoo is a gun free zone...

wait... the whole city is a gun free zone... well except for criminals.
waitaminute, Im not supposed to have these guns here??
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