Bible to be taught in school, in Texas.
08-19-2009, 11:21 AM
#166
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Science does not say that the universe came from nothing. The big bang theory only addresses the expansion of the universe from a single point of preexisting highly condensed matter, and makes no claims as to where the matter came from or what existed prior to it.
That's the difference between science and religion; when science can't answer something, the answer is simply "I don't know yet."
08-19-2009, 11:25 AM
#167
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(just for the sake of argument) whereas this imaginary being that made everything in the universe is proven? please dont pray for anyone, you're mocking your own "faith" when you say it in this connotation.
sorry religious nuts, this thread isnt helping your brand or convincing anyone. i wish the religious, i mean those of faith, would argue for just that: faith. and not some entity that simply tells you what is right and wrong and that made everything. i would understand it much more if people just said that faith is what brings people of different backgrounds together, faith is what makes us better people to work harder to help one another. instead, all i see is "you must believe this, or you will burn in hell." shows some ignorance if you ask me
sorry religious nuts, this thread isnt helping your brand or convincing anyone. i wish the religious, i mean those of faith, would argue for just that: faith. and not some entity that simply tells you what is right and wrong and that made everything. i would understand it much more if people just said that faith is what brings people of different backgrounds together, faith is what makes us better people to work harder to help one another. instead, all i see is "you must believe this, or you will burn in hell." shows some ignorance if you ask me
Christianity is a world view and requires faith- we know that already. You guys seem to be getting hung up on thinking that Molecules-to-Man Evolution is not a world view and that it is a scientific fact.
Molecules-to-Man Evolution is a world view and requires faith just like Christianity. It is not scientific fact. A scientific fact is something that is reproduceable, testable, and measurable. Molecules-to-Man Evolution does not meet that criteria. Belief in evolution is faith based at it's very foundation.
Evolutionists require more faith that Christians IMO, we have the answers from someone who was there at the beginning. Evolutionists still can't answer the four questions of which the foundation of their faith is based.
Who is saying believe or burn in hell? No one can force you to believe. Nor I am trying to. By that logic I could post that you guys are trying to force me into believing a came from monkeys and will spend eternity in the ground. We are having a discussion.
Those posting in this thread are getting answers as well as those viewing the thread who might not want to be included, but are interested.
Those who may have had their questions asked and answered without getting involved. I've done my best to answer the questions about my faith so that you and the others in this thread, and even more so those viewing and not posting have a better understanding of Christianity.
08-19-2009, 11:29 AM
#168
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Sorry Medic, but ID/Creationism poses way more questions than it answers. You can't use the retort "Well where did all the mass come from before the Big Bang?" without also applying it to your 'theory' as well. Who created the Creator? Just because we have no found the answer to something doesn't automatically attribute it to a divine origin. That flaw in reasoning is call "The God of the gaps" hypothesis. "There is a gap in this explanation, therefore it must be because God is responsible for this whole phenomenon." That is not logical.
As for the original topic, I am fine with the Bible being taught in school along with other religious texts in a historical context. Science and religion do not mix. The BB and evolution are NOT world views, they are NOT philosophy; they are Scientific theory. Do they have holes? Yes. Do I think we will find the answer to those gaps? Yes, absolutely. Think of where our understanding of the universe around us was not 300 years ago. Think of what we know now and we will know 300 years from now.
As for the original topic, I am fine with the Bible being taught in school along with other religious texts in a historical context. Science and religion do not mix. The BB and evolution are NOT world views, they are NOT philosophy; they are Scientific theory. Do they have holes? Yes. Do I think we will find the answer to those gaps? Yes, absolutely. Think of where our understanding of the universe around us was not 300 years ago. Think of what we know now and we will know 300 years from now.
What makes everyone think that we as man can understand everything in this world or not of this world? I don't pretend I know where God came from, the Bible doesn't say so any guess is just the fallible guess of man. It says He is the Creator, not the created. It would be a good question to ask one day.
08-19-2009, 11:30 AM
#169
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Scientific fact is reproduceable, testable, and measurable. Evidence for the Bible's truth and history are known all over the world. We can't test things not of this world, they are a matter of faith. But we can confirm the accuracy of the Bible's account of world history with science and evidence.
God was not created, He is the creator. One day I'd love to ask Him tons of questions, one of which being about His existence.
I've answered your question my friend, now back to my four please. (Or we can keep avoiding the most pertinent and foundational questions with regards to the non-existence of God of which I've posted and had no answers given).
In a world without God, what makes you believe you have a "soul?"
I'm not offended, just answering questions.
God was not created, He is the creator. One day I'd love to ask Him tons of questions, one of which being about His existence.
I've answered your question my friend, now back to my four please. (Or we can keep avoiding the most pertinent and foundational questions with regards to the non-existence of God of which I've posted and had no answers given).
In a world without God, what makes you believe you have a "soul?"
I'm not offended, just answering questions.
08-19-2009, 11:32 AM
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people need to use theory right!
evolution is a theory since it has been tested again and again and has not been disproved. If it failed to show its truth it would be discredited and not taught. religion is not a theory or a hypothesis since it cannot be tested. You can not test that there is a god(s). So religion is pretty much an idea, in scientific terms. Sorry but this just annoys me when people misuse very simple scientific terms, I'm not trying to be the grammar police.
And please don't try to get me into the argument since i know there is no point. People can believe what they want but just don't try to convert me
Here is a hint of how i feel about religion though :P and yes i know i will be flamed but o well:P
But keep the arguing going, its entertaining any wanna make a wager on rather or not everyone will come into agreement 
evolution is a theory since it has been tested again and again and has not been disproved. If it failed to show its truth it would be discredited and not taught. religion is not a theory or a hypothesis since it cannot be tested. You can not test that there is a god(s). So religion is pretty much an idea, in scientific terms. Sorry but this just annoys me when people misuse very simple scientific terms, I'm not trying to be the grammar police.
And please don't try to get me into the argument since i know there is no point. People can believe what they want but just don't try to convert me
Here is a hint of how i feel about religion though :P and yes i know i will be flamed but o well:P
But keep the arguing going, its entertaining
any wanna make a wager on rather or not everyone will come into agreement
08-19-2009, 11:41 AM
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Evolution is not scientific fact though. If it were it would be reproducible, testable, and measurable. It is a world view which depends on faith in it, just like Christianity.
Evolution goes against what we see in nature. We loose information over time, we do not gain new information. The fact that information exists at hinders the idea of evolution. Intelligence is the only thing that gives birth to information. No natural process gives birth to information, such as that found in DNA.
Evolution goes against what we see in nature. We loose information over time, we do not gain new information. The fact that information exists at hinders the idea of evolution. Intelligence is the only thing that gives birth to information. No natural process gives birth to information, such as that found in DNA.
Evolution is a Fact and a Theory: Biologists consider evolution to be a fact in much the same way that physicists do so for gravity. However, the mechanisms of evolution are less well understood, and it is these mechanisms that are described by several theories of evolution.
08-19-2009, 11:41 AM
#173
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No that is not a gain in information. That is a loss in information. Are people with an extra chromosome copy more evolved than those of us without the mutation and down syndrome?
There is also no fossil record that shows the transitional period in which simple organisms are becoming more complex over billions of years. If it did happen that way we would see countless examples in the fossil record showing each step of the way, but that is not the case.
There is also no fossil record that shows the transitional period in which simple organisms are becoming more complex over billions of years. If it did happen that way we would see countless examples in the fossil record showing each step of the way, but that is not the case.
Its a mutation that is not beneficial. Eventually it will go away since people with down syndrome very seldom, if at all reproduce and carriers have less offspring that can live to reproductive age since some have down syndrome. Mutations work both ways, since its a random occurrence.
Fossils don't happen all the time. They are very rare occurrences in nature. So to think that we should be finding billion year old fossils all over the place is ignorant. Especially considering how the earth has changed since life has been on it, the surfaces of the oceans and land are constancy changing. IE the tectonic plates that move under other plates.
I'm done arguing I'll just share my opinion on all religion. Religion is the opium of the masses, without it civilization cannot exist and with it man share never be truly free. This is true since it allows man to be complicated in his own "enslavement"
08-19-2009, 11:44 AM
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just because science can't answer certain things, the theory isnt discredited, like is said. ask those questions 50 years later because you know science does not have an answer for it but that doesnt mean the alternate (bible) is correct.
you said bible has been the same awhile text books and such go through changes, i really see no point to this, by this logic, i'd say text book is much more reliable. its like saying that, it was once written that earth is flat, when we found out it was round, regardless we'll still write it as the earth is flat.
can bible explain why the universe is expanding?
you said bible has been the same awhile text books and such go through changes, i really see no point to this, by this logic, i'd say text book is much more reliable. its like saying that, it was once written that earth is flat, when we found out it was round, regardless we'll still write it as the earth is flat.
can bible explain why the universe is expanding?
Last edited by Jin; 08-19-2009 at 11:50 AM.
08-19-2009, 11:47 AM
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Gravity is not a theory, it is a thing. That's like saying the Earth is a theory.
The explanation of gravity is a theory.
Also, your usage of theory is the lay-person usage; a scientific theory is not the same thing as a non-scientific theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
Who needs to do their homework again?
The explanation of gravity is a theory.
Also, your usage of theory is the lay-person usage; a scientific theory is not the same thing as a non-scientific theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
Who needs to do their homework again?
08-19-2009, 11:56 AM
#177
I've explained two religions, the world view of Secular Humanism (the belief that man is all knowing and can answer all questions about life without God) and the world view of Christianity in which there is an eternal and omnipotent God who created the cosmos.
The evidence against molecules-to-man evolution is incontrovertible. There have been plenty of discoveries that prove molecules-to-man evolution is impossible.
They still have not answered the four foundamental questions which form the foundation of their religion. They can't say where the bang matter came from, how inorganic matter became organic and led to life, explain the existence of information in our DNA, or find a natural process that increases genetic information as opposed to the loss of information we see in genetics with regards to reproduction and mutations.
Genetics does not support evolution. DNA is coded information... where does information come from? Not the natural world. Only intelligence gives birth to information.
Check out the fossil record... if this planet has existed for millions of years, over which uncountable amounts of life have evolved from nothing to everything we would have a HUGE fossil record showing every stage of the process. We would have gross amounts of examples and data, yet there is no transitional fossil record. Even Darwin noted that the non-existence of a transitional fossil record was one of the biggest issues for evolution.
As well as things like "the dinosaur plant" which are found in the fossil record and were thought to be millions of years old. That is, until they were found in the hills of Australia unchanged "millions" of years later... no evolution in "millions" of years... right...
The Bible is different because of the prophecies of the Old Testament about the coming of Christ and the fulfillment in the New Testament. Christ bifurcated the world and said that He was the One, the Truth, and the Way to father. The Bible is what it claims to be, the divinely inspired Word of God.
No book has been written like the Bible has.
The Bible is the revelation of God which was recorded over about 2,000 years, originally in 3 languages, transcribed by over 40 authors ranging from kings to slaves and farmers to warriors, in times of peace and in times of war, as well as across three continents with such a consistency that its origin is only explainable by authorship of an all knowing, eternal Creator who made Himself known. No other book from ancient or modern times has the consistency the Bible does with the above noted criteria.
The textbooks of science and secular humanism change every year, the Bible has never changed.
Like previously posted, the Bible manuscripts are compared to other ancient writings and prevail, standing alone as the best preserved literary works of all antiquity.
If you want me to post the stats like already posted by someone else it's no problem
The evidence against molecules-to-man evolution is incontrovertible. There have been plenty of discoveries that prove molecules-to-man evolution is impossible.
They still have not answered the four foundamental questions which form the foundation of their religion. They can't say where the bang matter came from, how inorganic matter became organic and led to life, explain the existence of information in our DNA, or find a natural process that increases genetic information as opposed to the loss of information we see in genetics with regards to reproduction and mutations.
Genetics does not support evolution. DNA is coded information... where does information come from? Not the natural world. Only intelligence gives birth to information.
Check out the fossil record... if this planet has existed for millions of years, over which uncountable amounts of life have evolved from nothing to everything we would have a HUGE fossil record showing every stage of the process. We would have gross amounts of examples and data, yet there is no transitional fossil record. Even Darwin noted that the non-existence of a transitional fossil record was one of the biggest issues for evolution.
As well as things like "the dinosaur plant" which are found in the fossil record and were thought to be millions of years old. That is, until they were found in the hills of Australia unchanged "millions" of years later... no evolution in "millions" of years... right...
The Bible is different because of the prophecies of the Old Testament about the coming of Christ and the fulfillment in the New Testament. Christ bifurcated the world and said that He was the One, the Truth, and the Way to father. The Bible is what it claims to be, the divinely inspired Word of God.
No book has been written like the Bible has.
The Bible is the revelation of God which was recorded over about 2,000 years, originally in 3 languages, transcribed by over 40 authors ranging from kings to slaves and farmers to warriors, in times of peace and in times of war, as well as across three continents with such a consistency that its origin is only explainable by authorship of an all knowing, eternal Creator who made Himself known. No other book from ancient or modern times has the consistency the Bible does with the above noted criteria.
The textbooks of science and secular humanism change every year, the Bible has never changed.
Like previously posted, the Bible manuscripts are compared to other ancient writings and prevail, standing alone as the best preserved literary works of all antiquity.
If you want me to post the stats like already posted by someone else it's no problem
The lack of fossil evidence come form the fact that organic mater decays. You have to have a very special climate/media for a fossil to persist for millions of years. Let me guess... God put the fossils there to challenge Man's belief in him?
The reason text books change is because of new break-throughs, new ideas. The fact that the Bible has not changed is due to the fact that those who support it don't want it to. Those in control of its publication DENY change.
You chose to ignore all of my statements/answers only to restate one of your questions. Why would you be satisfied with such a "Well I can't possibly comprehend this so I would rather just stay ignorant." That is very, very sad.
You still have not cited your sources. You have quoted a few things, but nothing with references. I'm also betting you didn't watch anything I posted. Willful ignorance is still ignorance.
The one I am most interested in, is this notion that "nature" can't create information. That is news to me. Information is everywhere in nature.
You are using incorrect terminology and incorrect information from what I can only assume are incorrect sources.
I see it boiling down to this:
1. Creationism posses more questions than it answers
2. What is more probable: life evolving from the building blocks of our known universe or an omniscient Creator influencing every atom, every planet, every galaxy, every plant, animal, human and cell in the entire universe, all at once. Not only does it do that, it also simultaneously influences events here on Earth (because we are the only living organisms in the universe, the rest is for show) based on prayer, sin and everything else. That would make God infinitely complex. Which would necessitate something EVEN MORE infinitely complex to have brought about God; in an infinite regression theory.
08-19-2009, 12:01 PM
#178
Also... damnit, sucked into another science vs. religion thread. I should really stop reading these. The all end exactly the same. :/
I'll just do what Paul does, kind of ignore the topic and go mostly offtopic with my responses while adding some humor. haha.
I'll just do what Paul does, kind of ignore the topic and go mostly offtopic with my responses while adding some humor. haha.
08-19-2009, 12:36 PM
#180
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Give in to your nerdrage. I did.