ATTN STi wing swappers: Does going wingless/wrx wing ACTUALLY reduce attention?
04-09-2009, 12:11 PM
#46
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How many just cant feel the differance in even having a low tire. And be truthful about it. Its a very high number of drivers that cant tell. I know a lot of racers when I was a tire engineer that could not tell. But some that could tell you a 1 psi differance. So its ok not to be able to.
That being said, I have to say I find it absolutely funny when someone says they can feel a difference in the handling of their Suby with or without the wing ESPECIALLY if they have never been on a track. It's like when someone puts a STB on a car that doesn't need one and says it totally affected the handling.
If that airfoil graph is true then around 100mph you would be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 35lbs of theoretical downforce (said theoretical as other aerodynamic aspects of the car could cancel that out such as that rediculous upforce generator over the back window).
Someone once told me that their stock STi wing put down ~300lbs of down force. I cannot imagine that the stock trunk latch and bumpers would put up with that even if it were remotely close to true. Either way the guy declined to let me sit on his trunk and see how it would deal with ~195lbs.
There are times when aero parts make a worth-while difference. Thing is, those times are never really below 100mph and never ever on the street. So... Yeah. If you like the way the wing looks, leave it. If you don't, get rid of it. Pretty simple.
04-09-2009, 05:32 PM
#47
I agree, ridden with plenty of people who couldn't tell a tire was low or didn't have a concept of how to put their coilovers back after they "adjusted" them. Me, I pull over and check/adjust tire pressure in regular driving sometimes. Any noise I hear has me tuning in to see what it could be, etc. It's actually annoying sometimes haha..
That being said, I have to say I find it absolutely funny when someone says they can feel a difference in the handling of their Suby with or without the wing ESPECIALLY if they have never been on a track. It's like when someone puts a STB on a car that doesn't need one and says it totally affected the handling.
If that airfoil graph is true then around 100mph you would be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 35lbs of theoretical downforce (said theoretical as other aerodynamic aspects of the car could cancel that out such as that rediculous upforce generator over the back window).
Someone once told me that their stock STi wing put down ~300lbs of down force. I cannot imagine that the stock trunk latch and bumpers would put up with that even if it were remotely close to true. Either way the guy declined to let me sit on his trunk and see how it would deal with ~195lbs.
There are times when aero parts make a worth-while difference. Thing is, those times are never really below 100mph and never ever on the street. So... Yeah. If you like the way the wing looks, leave it. If you don't, get rid of it. Pretty simple.
That being said, I have to say I find it absolutely funny when someone says they can feel a difference in the handling of their Suby with or without the wing ESPECIALLY if they have never been on a track. It's like when someone puts a STB on a car that doesn't need one and says it totally affected the handling.
If that airfoil graph is true then around 100mph you would be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 35lbs of theoretical downforce (said theoretical as other aerodynamic aspects of the car could cancel that out such as that rediculous upforce generator over the back window).
Someone once told me that their stock STi wing put down ~300lbs of down force. I cannot imagine that the stock trunk latch and bumpers would put up with that even if it were remotely close to true. Either way the guy declined to let me sit on his trunk and see how it would deal with ~195lbs.
There are times when aero parts make a worth-while difference. Thing is, those times are never really below 100mph and never ever on the street. So... Yeah. If you like the way the wing looks, leave it. If you don't, get rid of it. Pretty simple.
I got rid of the wing but added a rear diffuser now my car can drive upside down if I wanted to
It makes like 1,000,000,000 pounds of downforce and will allow me to hit super sonic speeds on the freeway, yee! Okay just kidding, but it is funny how people claim to go faster or drive better when they slap on a wing or stb to their car.
-Gio
I felt the difference from my front strut tower bar. Front end feels better overall and I have less creaking noises.
04-12-2009, 02:27 PM
#52
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I said I thought it was funny when people said a STB "totally affects the handling" not they "noticed small differences/improvements."
At least you didn't say "it totally got rid of the understeer" or something. Less creaking noises will be a likely result. The other results will be harder to detect with stock suspension and such.
A rear sway bar is not a small adjustment on the first two Impreza generations IMHO. Putting a stock '02/'03 20mm rear sway on the back of an older GM6 or something for example will be instantly noticable. A whiteline on the back of my '03 made a very nice difference in the way the rear end behaved. The front STB - well - a lot of times the desire to not feel that one wasted money outweighs the ability to discern whether or not there is a difference. Like I said, some cars - it makes a difference. Some, it flatly does not. The stiffer you make your suspension + adding other bracing, the more likely you will notice the difference with the installation of a STB because the body structure is being affected more by the suspension take up points. This is only one reason why a front STB is usually the last bracing mod I make on a car.
Either way, I was mostly referring to cars that have the shock towers as part of the firewall and could really have nearly zero body flex in that area. If you brace the hell out of a car, you will feel incremental differences as you add parts. Taking the front and rear STBs off my 240Z for example made it feel like a mattress, and it would creak and groan going in/out of driveways.
Either way, I was mostly referring to cars that have the shock towers as part of the firewall and could really have nearly zero body flex in that area. If you brace the hell out of a car, you will feel incremental differences as you add parts. Taking the front and rear STBs off my 240Z for example made it feel like a mattress, and it would creak and groan going in/out of driveways.
04-13-2009, 11:10 AM
#54
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Wombatsauce is mos def right haha. So true...STB are mostly show. I would definitely wanna "feel" like STB's make a difference, especially if i spend tat much money onna show part. lolz
04-13-2009, 11:38 AM
#58
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i think the point is, they do help reduce body flex, but we don't know by how much and if we are actually able to feel the difference in stiffness while driving, and if you can feel it, how much it actually improves performance. seems like the consensus (for subaru impreza's) is:
front strut bar: most say it doesnt make a difference nor can you feel it. some say they can feel it. prob doesnt make a huge difference in performance since the towers are connected to the firewall. but that doesnt mean you cant feel a negligible change.
rear strut bar: most say the mod makes a marked change in the rear end feeling stiffer. how much that improves handling has not been determined. but this magnitude of change in stiffness depends on the car - sedan vs wagon. sedans have a rear deck which helps a lot with stiffness, whereas wagons do not. many wagon owners swear by this mod to help stiffen up the car. some also say it doesn't warrant the cost of the mod.
front strut bar: most say it doesnt make a difference nor can you feel it. some say they can feel it. prob doesnt make a huge difference in performance since the towers are connected to the firewall. but that doesnt mean you cant feel a negligible change.
rear strut bar: most say the mod makes a marked change in the rear end feeling stiffer. how much that improves handling has not been determined. but this magnitude of change in stiffness depends on the car - sedan vs wagon. sedans have a rear deck which helps a lot with stiffness, whereas wagons do not. many wagon owners swear by this mod to help stiffen up the car. some also say it doesn't warrant the cost of the mod.
04-13-2009, 01:32 PM
#60
I'm wingless and %100 shaved, I also have a really quiet CBE, I really think that the quite cab back is the key into not getting pulled over. Also don't drive like a *** and yuo should also be ok. I have done many track days with my car and gone over 160mph and the car has no problems holding it's ground.
Shaved is the only way to go
Drive smart and safe, have a car that's not crazy loud it will help you out.
Shaved is the only way to go
Drive smart and safe, have a car that's not crazy loud it will help you out.