Another American Beheaded
06-21-2004, 12:20 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by dub2w
I would say that a penubra exists between the two. Though in a sense it was by default, economic policies designed to bring new life into Europe were also creativelty structured so that America was always one-up.
Then, look to our southern neighbors in Latin America. We conquered that region over a hundred years ago and have done a fantastic job of keepin them down. When reasonable politicians came into office and attempted to loosen the US economic stranglehold on their given countries (Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Cuba...) the US retaliated by either a: imposing sanstions or b: getting rid of them altogether (such as the CIA involvement in the coup against Allende in Chile, thus bringing in one of the true monsters of the modern-era = Gen. Pinochet)
Next we have Africa... well, they offer no challenge and have few resources so we simply step over that issue like a muddy puddle (after all, what do we have to gain by helping them fight malnutrition, AIDs, and corruption??)
Segwaying us perfectly to the ME. If it is not clear to you why we are there then I wont take the time to explain. I am eagerly awaiting the title for our newest OP... but I cant think of anything funny that rhymes with Saudi
Then, look to our southern neighbors in Latin America. We conquered that region over a hundred years ago and have done a fantastic job of keepin them down. When reasonable politicians came into office and attempted to loosen the US economic stranglehold on their given countries (Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Cuba...) the US retaliated by either a: imposing sanstions or b: getting rid of them altogether (such as the CIA involvement in the coup against Allende in Chile, thus bringing in one of the true monsters of the modern-era = Gen. Pinochet)
Next we have Africa... well, they offer no challenge and have few resources so we simply step over that issue like a muddy puddle (after all, what do we have to gain by helping them fight malnutrition, AIDs, and corruption??)
Segwaying us perfectly to the ME. If it is not clear to you why we are there then I wont take the time to explain. I am eagerly awaiting the title for our newest OP... but I cant think of anything funny that rhymes with Saudi
Germany and Japan lose the war. Who rebuilt them?
They speak Spanish in LATAM stud, not American english. Go read a history book.
So we should pour billions into Africa without reforming the leaders of that country. What do you think we have been pouring into Africa? Billions. It's called food. They cannot even supply their people with food and that is our fault?
See, the ME has the oil. We want to buy the oil. Some nations are selling oil but 60% of their people get their food from the UN while buying WMD with the profits.
I suppose we keep China down as well. How about N Korea, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Sudan....those all our fault too.
I never liked apologists. Chomsky must love you.
06-21-2004, 12:24 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by dub2w
I would say that a penubra exists between the two. Though in a sense it was by default, economic policies designed to bring new life into Europe were also creativelty structured so that America was always one-up.
We have the "one-up" because we have so far not gone too deep into socialism than they have. And once the population cannot support those socialist societies, who do you think they are gonna come calling to bail them out?
Norm never taught you that, I bet.
06-21-2004, 12:30 PM
#79
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1. L. America reference: over my head
2. Africa:
Two words: World Bank. Solution: Partial debt forgiveness. When we loan money to shady govts, only to watch them **** that money down the drain so they can buy hookers and Ferraris, we should forgive some of the debt (they cant even pay back the interest)
3. China: actuaslly our policies have helped China immensely, and at the sake of our own economy IMO (outsourcing all of our labor might be good for Bush's big business chronies but it hurts the avg American)
2. Africa:
Two words: World Bank. Solution: Partial debt forgiveness. When we loan money to shady govts, only to watch them **** that money down the drain so they can buy hookers and Ferraris, we should forgive some of the debt (they cant even pay back the interest)
3. China: actuaslly our policies have helped China immensely, and at the sake of our own economy IMO (outsourcing all of our labor might be good for Bush's big business chronies but it hurts the avg American)
06-21-2004, 12:39 PM
#80
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I'll tell you what I am having a good time discussing issues with you, but I have to leave work right now.
Couple things:
1) Outsourcing isn't a bad thing for the American worker in the long run. It has zero to do with Bush. Notice how congress isn't stopping it either. Plenty of Republicans and Democrats alike have sounded off against it for political purposes, but in the long run it helps America. I'll explain later - with facts.
2) Naom, Noam, Norm, Naomi - I figured you knew the correct spelling.
3) I am all for debt forgiveness when the world can actually guarantee some type of security and connect them to the technology of the rest of the world. Just forgiving debt doesn't solve their problems. Their needs to be a structure in place that makes it safe for any investment. You can't bankrupt the world to bring us down to their level. Think it through.
Finally, you never answered my questions:
Who has a better diplomatic record than the U.S.?
What specific policies lead you to believe we want to dominate the world?
Anytime I approach liberals they never, ever, can give me specific's to back up their opinions. We'll see how this pans out.
Couple things:
1) Outsourcing isn't a bad thing for the American worker in the long run. It has zero to do with Bush. Notice how congress isn't stopping it either. Plenty of Republicans and Democrats alike have sounded off against it for political purposes, but in the long run it helps America. I'll explain later - with facts.
2) Naom, Noam, Norm, Naomi - I figured you knew the correct spelling.
3) I am all for debt forgiveness when the world can actually guarantee some type of security and connect them to the technology of the rest of the world. Just forgiving debt doesn't solve their problems. Their needs to be a structure in place that makes it safe for any investment. You can't bankrupt the world to bring us down to their level. Think it through.
Finally, you never answered my questions:
Who has a better diplomatic record than the U.S.?
What specific policies lead you to believe we want to dominate the world?
Anytime I approach liberals they never, ever, can give me specific's to back up their opinions. We'll see how this pans out.
06-21-2004, 12:49 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by dub2w
I would say that a penumbra exists between the two. Though in a sense it was by default, economic policies designed to bring new life into Europe were also creativelty structured so that America was always one-up.
Then, look to our southern neighbors in Latin America. We conquered that region over a hundred years ago and have done a fantastic job of keepin them down. When reasonable politicians came into office and attempted to loosen the US economic stranglehold on their given countries (Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Cuba...) the US retaliated by either a: imposing sanstions or b: getting rid of them altogether (such as the CIA involvement in the coup against Allende in Chile, thus bringing in one of the true monsters of the modern-era = Gen. Pinochet)
Next we have Africa... well, they offer no challenge and have few resources so we simply step over that issue like a muddy puddle (after all, what do we have to gain by helping them fight malnutrition, AIDs, and corruption??)
Segwaying us perfectly to the ME. If it is not clear to you why we are there then I wont take the time to explain. I am eagerly awaiting the title for our newest OP... but I cant think of anything funny that rhymes with Saudi
Then, look to our southern neighbors in Latin America. We conquered that region over a hundred years ago and have done a fantastic job of keepin them down. When reasonable politicians came into office and attempted to loosen the US economic stranglehold on their given countries (Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Cuba...) the US retaliated by either a: imposing sanstions or b: getting rid of them altogether (such as the CIA involvement in the coup against Allende in Chile, thus bringing in one of the true monsters of the modern-era = Gen. Pinochet)
Next we have Africa... well, they offer no challenge and have few resources so we simply step over that issue like a muddy puddle (after all, what do we have to gain by helping them fight malnutrition, AIDs, and corruption??)
Segwaying us perfectly to the ME. If it is not clear to you why we are there then I wont take the time to explain. I am eagerly awaiting the title for our newest OP... but I cant think of anything funny that rhymes with Saudi
And to address your other point, it is moot if there are other countries that do things better. We are the leaders of the modern world. We should constantly strive to better man-kind, coming up with new and innovative ways to accomplish that goal.
This has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans. I am a huge fan of guys like Howard Dean and Sen. McCain... guys that really seem to put the interest of humanity at the forfront
Last edited by dub2w; 06-21-2004 at 01:19 PM.
06-21-2004, 01:37 PM
#85
Dahveed aka Robin Hood
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Fatal, you had to say the word.
If I could press a button and turn Syria into dust, I would do so, quickly and gladly.
I bet that's where your heritage is from. The one Arab Nation that won't sit down and discuss peace...may fire rain down from their skies.
I love it every time Israel launches strikes at them, blowing up the terrorist camps and groups they harbor, destroying their weapons stockpiles and transport tunnels; (sigh) beautiful stuff.
Thankfully the Golan Heights will stay in the hands of the victorious, not those that have dominated and ruined Lebanon.
As for your phillistines, they are their own worst enemy. They have prevented peace since '48. The offers are on the table, and they know Isreal has the gun barrels and missiles waiting for their terrorist leaders meanwhile. Maybe Jordan and Egypt are better places for them to live, after all. But I forgot, even as Arab brethren, they are so divided, so they refuse them refuge, just like they refused to unite, to effectively fight Israel, which is why they were so quickly cut to pieces, time and time again.
"Running away from their own problems", huh?
Israeli tribes, Ashkenaz and Sephardic, spread throughout Europe, North Africa, and what is now Turkey, during the Diaspora. My own family on my Father's side were originally from Russia. Having suffered through the Holocaust, many returned home, and they created Israel. The Arab nations have tried several times to crush them, but Israel still stands strong today, and the I.D.F., well-known to be one of the world's finest and feircest armed forces, calls the shots.
I salute two flags: The Stars and Stripes, and the Star of David.
I'm forever glad that the two nations proudly stand united and fight...and especially at the expense of your interests.
Hey it's good to hear from someone like Chaotic who knows what they're talking about.
David
If I could press a button and turn Syria into dust, I would do so, quickly and gladly.
I bet that's where your heritage is from. The one Arab Nation that won't sit down and discuss peace...may fire rain down from their skies.
I love it every time Israel launches strikes at them, blowing up the terrorist camps and groups they harbor, destroying their weapons stockpiles and transport tunnels; (sigh) beautiful stuff.
Thankfully the Golan Heights will stay in the hands of the victorious, not those that have dominated and ruined Lebanon.
As for your phillistines, they are their own worst enemy. They have prevented peace since '48. The offers are on the table, and they know Isreal has the gun barrels and missiles waiting for their terrorist leaders meanwhile. Maybe Jordan and Egypt are better places for them to live, after all. But I forgot, even as Arab brethren, they are so divided, so they refuse them refuge, just like they refused to unite, to effectively fight Israel, which is why they were so quickly cut to pieces, time and time again.
"Running away from their own problems", huh?
Israeli tribes, Ashkenaz and Sephardic, spread throughout Europe, North Africa, and what is now Turkey, during the Diaspora. My own family on my Father's side were originally from Russia. Having suffered through the Holocaust, many returned home, and they created Israel. The Arab nations have tried several times to crush them, but Israel still stands strong today, and the I.D.F., well-known to be one of the world's finest and feircest armed forces, calls the shots.
I salute two flags: The Stars and Stripes, and the Star of David.
I'm forever glad that the two nations proudly stand united and fight...and especially at the expense of your interests.
Hey it's good to hear from someone like Chaotic who knows what they're talking about.
David
Originally Posted by Fatal Velocity
First off, Bobby Thanks,
Second When someone like hmmm Me, says my opinion, in the country which you all know I live in, and for those of you who dont know its the USA, I wouldnt be here If I didnt want to be. Also you cant talk about freedom this and freedom that then aking me to leave this country If I dont like that cause then you sound like a complete moron, really you do. The point of a free country is to freely state your opinion, which I obviously did and so did many of you, which is great. But where do you get the Idea That im not patriatic? If our (USA) Land was under attack I would stand ground and fight till victory or death 100% volentary, But going into a country for some stupid, **** naa I refuse to do that.
And as for the comment egarding the land of Jordan being for that Palestinians, where the **** did you hear that? ok a large number of palestinians ran to jordan as refuge's from Palestine, butI dont see where youthink that the land of jordan is for the palestinains.
BTW do your research on all the land offerings your Beloved Israel gave the palestinians and tell me which one you think is reasoneble.
AND the land of Palestine in 1948 was over run by Isralies running away from thier own problems, in Germany and Europe. Palestine Belongs to the Palestinians, and Isralies, Jews are there as refugees just as the Palestinaians are in Jordan and Kuwait etc etc. as refugees its a chain reactiona and it was all started in1948 by the Jews who couldnt stand thier own land. And the Second, The US some how seperates itself from Israel which I dont know will ever happen, that will be Israels last friend and Israel will disappear off the map just as quikly as it appeared.
And for the beheaddings, Cmon we all agree that that is sick, and wrong, and awfull and shold not happen. and as for the person with that dad in the Oil Business I have an uncle in Kuwait who is also in the Oil business and currently departing from there as well, so my sympothy is with you and prayers go out to your family safety. This is hard on all of us especially those of us who have family either over seas, in the service, native to those countrys, even watchin this crap on TV is hard. when I think about it I remember what was goin through my mind as a kid when I was in Israel during the Gulf war, and asking my father what all the fighting was for. This sort of makes me want to focus on giving our generations and those following a better education regarding the politics and over seas situations.
So as an american Arab I choose, to stay in my country of Birth USA, I choose to not salute the flag, niether disgrace it. And I choose to not be antimidated by Iraq, nor Syria, but prepare for whats coming from N Korea...
Second When someone like hmmm Me, says my opinion, in the country which you all know I live in, and for those of you who dont know its the USA, I wouldnt be here If I didnt want to be. Also you cant talk about freedom this and freedom that then aking me to leave this country If I dont like that cause then you sound like a complete moron, really you do. The point of a free country is to freely state your opinion, which I obviously did and so did many of you, which is great. But where do you get the Idea That im not patriatic? If our (USA) Land was under attack I would stand ground and fight till victory or death 100% volentary, But going into a country for some stupid, **** naa I refuse to do that.
And as for the comment egarding the land of Jordan being for that Palestinians, where the **** did you hear that? ok a large number of palestinians ran to jordan as refuge's from Palestine, butI dont see where youthink that the land of jordan is for the palestinains.
BTW do your research on all the land offerings your Beloved Israel gave the palestinians and tell me which one you think is reasoneble.
AND the land of Palestine in 1948 was over run by Isralies running away from thier own problems, in Germany and Europe. Palestine Belongs to the Palestinians, and Isralies, Jews are there as refugees just as the Palestinaians are in Jordan and Kuwait etc etc. as refugees its a chain reactiona and it was all started in1948 by the Jews who couldnt stand thier own land. And the Second, The US some how seperates itself from Israel which I dont know will ever happen, that will be Israels last friend and Israel will disappear off the map just as quikly as it appeared.
And for the beheaddings, Cmon we all agree that that is sick, and wrong, and awfull and shold not happen. and as for the person with that dad in the Oil Business I have an uncle in Kuwait who is also in the Oil business and currently departing from there as well, so my sympothy is with you and prayers go out to your family safety. This is hard on all of us especially those of us who have family either over seas, in the service, native to those countrys, even watchin this crap on TV is hard. when I think about it I remember what was goin through my mind as a kid when I was in Israel during the Gulf war, and asking my father what all the fighting was for. This sort of makes me want to focus on giving our generations and those following a better education regarding the politics and over seas situations.
So as an american Arab I choose, to stay in my country of Birth USA, I choose to not salute the flag, niether disgrace it. And I choose to not be antimidated by Iraq, nor Syria, but prepare for whats coming from N Korea...
06-21-2004, 02:36 PM
#86
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wow. that is too personal of an attack on a fellow i-clubber. wishing his country was turned to dust? hella weak sauce
this is political debate, not a full blown attack on people's own beliefs or cultures
this is political debate, not a full blown attack on people's own beliefs or cultures
06-21-2004, 10:00 PM
#88
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Using superlative statements like "liberals never answer my questions" is pretty cool. I answered your questions by the way. Remember, each side is an educated opinion on a given situation. If it were flat out fact, there would no need to debate.
Seriously though, it is good to have another member who likes to spar in the verbal sense.
Seriously though, it is good to have another member who likes to spar in the verbal sense.
06-21-2004, 10:37 PM
#89
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For those of you saying, "Lets just get out", think about this: The people we're fighting HATE us. They want every last American man, woman, and child dead. They feel that we are pure evil and must die so that they can become stronger. They've planted themselves within our communities and they've been with us for a long time now. Although the world trade center wasn't the first attempt to cause fear and death, it was the most effective. Thousands of innocent lives snuffed out in an instant. Don't think that these people, so capable of such acts of insanity, are going to stop. They're just regrouping, waiting for an opportunity to strike again. To kill thousands more in the name of thier God. It's time that America with all it's might, defend the American way of life. Bring this fight to the door steps of our foes before they shed more blood on our own soil. I don't want to be a victim of another attack. I don't want to wake up one morning just to learn that my friends were killed when a suicide bomber entered a movie theater on a friday night and blew up. We must hunt down and bring justice to all those that wish harm on us. The only alternative, if you're not completely ignorant, is to live in fear and hope that nothing happens.
06-22-2004, 03:36 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by dub2w
Using superlative statements like "liberals never answer my questions" is pretty cool. I answered your questions by the way. Remember, each side is an educated opinion on a given situation. If it were flat out fact, there would no need to debate.
Couple of your broad statements include:
"Americans don't have a ****ing clue about diplomacy or taking one on the chin."
----Specifically I asked what you meant by that. And I asked you to "Name me one country around the globe that has a better diplomatic record than the U.S." And don't give me this BS about how maybe we do but we should because we're the greatest country on the planet. You said we have no clue. SHOW ME Specifically why.
----I asked you for specific examples to support your statement that "America is bent on world domination." Specific, not broad definitions. You haven't answered this question either.
----You said America "doesn't know how to take one on the chin." I asked what you meant by that. No answer here either.
----You also stated that America set up Europe economically so that America would always be "one up." I asked you who you thought bankrolled Europe and even offered the S-p-e-c-i-f-i-c plan that was put in place to help Europe get back on it feet.
Look, you can shoot me one-liner after one-liner and tell me how "cool" I am because I put you on the spot. The fact of the matter is some things are not relative and based on "educated opinion."
Some are based on cold, hard, s-p-e-c-i-f-i-c facts, of which I have yet to hear from you. You may have a general knowledge of certain subjects that are skewed by the books you read and the news you watch, but I have been both a liberal and a conservative in my lifetime and I realize that nobody can make political decisions without finding resources away from the mainstream media, i.e., by digging for "primary sources." Any good researcher does that.
If you want to debate with me I need specifics. If not, than we probably agree that I am right and you are wrong. Because after all if you can't back up what you say with facts that there is no reason for you to believe what you say, IMHO.