All this talk about health care reform, and MJs death, but no one wants to talk about what Obama is trying to shove under the carpet and get passed without ANYONE speaking about it? ARE YOU SERIOUSLY INSANE?!?

This one has a direct impact on us, the consumers, the people who use natural resources and pay for utility bills. If this passes, OUR manufacturing natural resources jobs end up being outsourced, and our utility bills will at least DOUBLE in the amount they cost now. In addition, we loose all the jobs in America and let the poor countries pick it up. Poor countries will do it, even though it pollutes because they are that desperate. So we want a GREENER earth, but just outsourcing the cause is ridiculous, in the end we still get as much pollution as before. Except now we will have to pay higher energy bills, AND loose all the jobs that these places had.

Obama knows that his popularity is going to drop insanely fast, but before that he's going to try and change everything to his socialistic views and run up the debt as high as he can.

I bet he knows that he is only going to be a 1 term president, and he's trying to bulldoze everything into place. This is insane, wtf.

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but all of your claims have been thoroughly debunked. And this bill has not been 'shoved under the carpet' - it's been in the news for the last 3-4 months. The Congressional Budget Office has already shown that for the average American household in 2020, energy taxes will increase by $175 per year, or about 45 cents per day...not the 'thousands of dollars' myth that the Republican leadership keeps falsely touting. Plus, the lowest 1/5th income bracket will actually see a $40 net benefit in utility taxes (also cited in above .pdf).

Further, the improvements in energy efficiency caused by this bill were not included in the above analysis - the American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy estimates that the efficiency provisions alone could save businesses and consumers $22 billion annually by 2020. The savings would be $170 per household in 2020, offsetting the above increase in utility costs.

And regarding jobs, the bill will help create 1.7 million green jobs in the US, according to a study by the UMass. All your ballyhooing about 'outsourcing' is without merit. And, as usual, no alternatives are provided.

You guys can keep whining, spreading Hannity-esque misinformation and insisting on doing nothing about the very real climate crisis. I will be calling my Senators to insist that they vote for ACES. You are quite correct that 'this one has a direct impact on us.'

ps - it's 'lose', not 'loose'

 

A counter arguement with actual evidence from reputible research. I appreciate someone being able to back up their arguement/ belief with evidence rather then ranting with no proof to back it up. Ur the man shagginwagon

 

I don't have the energy to debate this right now. The US is going to be a progressive state where super liberalism will eventually run it into non-existence.

 

4chan has more merit than all of iLoqin's threads combined.

That is all.

 

When in Rome....

 

I absolutely don't believe in what Obama is doing. Record 10 trillion and counting debt, etc. There is no FUTURE to what he is putting together, if it was LONG term, you'd led the FAILING companies fail, so new things can be built. In order to create a job, you need jobs to fail in one area to transfer to a new area.

Government has no idea on what customers need. Private and small business do, so you guys can gang bang me all you want, but from what Obama has done, we're just going straight down the **** hole with him devaluing our money and undoing what our nation was built on.

 

People are talking about it. People just don't want to talk to you about it on i-club.

No

Does he really?

Remember that one time we had an unpopular President who everyone was sure wouldn't win a second term, lost the popular vote and still made it into office?

Your assumptions are insulting. Your conjecture lacks supportive evidence as a previous poster pointed out.

 

It's supposed to be insulting, I was on the band wagon and I thought he would actually do some good, but you can't fix what is going on within the first few years, it's a long term situation. Printing money and buying our own bonds to suffice doesn't work relying on other nations to continue buying our bonds doesn't work. My conjecture is perfectly fine, you show me the long term outcome of all of what he has proposed, and how he'll drop the deficit and somehow make the dollar gain while printing money and I might believe you. It's simple inflation. Tough economic times doesn't mean cap the wealthy and spend it which way the government thinks is correct. Go back to the basis of why America got so strong, it was investors and small business who grew and hired people. Created business where they saw fit and what was needed, not the government doing it. We started out without a government, it was built AROUND the people. That's how it trickles down. Not the government robbing the wealthy and giving it to the poor.

Sure some things work, like maximums on milk, bread, police, firemen, military, etc., but you can't do that to business, and bail out failing firms, insurance companies, banks, and expect that somehow they'll DO something?

You can't SPEND your way out of debt, you need to sell something for profit in order to make up the deficit, I don't see that. Stimulus plan is spending, and pulling/trading/taxing an already hurt economy isn't the correct way to solve the problem.

We are going to be in debt a lot longer and extending the recession because Obamanomics won't let failing businesses fail, and the succeeding businesses expand and control the failing firms.

People think it's the end if the big companies such as AIG, Fannie and Freddie fail.

I WOULD TRUST the guy who is successful in these times to buy them out after bankruptcy to run with it, since they are successful now. I would not trust banks who would have gone bankrupt if it wasn't for government aid. They are still under the same management. Trust the guys who are growing and expanding, not the guys who needed Govt to pick them up again.

 

So...you intentionally called me insane and insinuated that I'm blind to current legislation?

AND I'll do whatever the **** I want to business. It's mine and you can't tell me what to do with it, ****.