rau

iTrader: (9)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

sammae01

iTrader: (5)

My thoughts don't matter but i just want a post count =) but I'm don't get very upset by being pulled over for"reasonble suspicion beyond mere suspicion" I was born and raised in San Jose. I'm used to it, but now after being more educated, my problems are when police officers make pretext stops. like how do justify "reasonable suspicion" when the car is completely stock and I wasn't driving recklessly?. or what about Fishing expeditions being conducted by officers because you fit this so-called "profile"

$10 says if I drove a completely stock WRB STI with Gold BBS(most attention attracting color combo IMO)in or around the enforced areas, I would get pulled over and hassled. and just like the fellas at the evos forums I would be written up for my rear wing obstructing my view as wells as my huge hood scoop

at least I'm safe from this crap. San Jose FTW with our racial profiling officers, Abusive Juvie Hall employees, and broke school districts .......

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

I am an employed, tax paying resident of San Mateo county. I want to say that I 100% agree with what may be the intent of the law, and what some people are saying here.

My largest issue is this is being talked about as if it were a purely mathematical situation - whereas if you are breaking the law, you will get pulled over and if you aren't you won't. This is not true - if you believe it is, you lack the experience to comment. I 100% agree that if you make your car noticable, you are asking for trouble. Due to my own personal experience with law enforcement, I see this largely as an open door for an officer to "contact" a larger amount of people.

Another point is that, living here, I have seen a fair share of people in cars and on motorcycles doing some seriously stupid an dangerous stuff - not one of them was a riced-out car. Usually it's a silver Jetta, green Honda Odyssey or a gold 2.2CL or some other unobtrusive car. Given the hours I work, sometimes I come home at odd hours of the night. I see some pretty crazy stuff around here. I also never see anyone pulled over, or cops watching the areas where I frequently see this sort of activity. Granted this is just the porthole I see San Mateo county through, but this is still what I see - it's still a snapshot of what is actually happening.

A few months ago, I had an accident. I made myself noticable by the manner in which I was driving. It was 100% my fault, and completely avoidable by me. I was driving like a jerk because I was mad - which is a very rare thing for me. I have since learned my lesson and to my knowledge it will never happen again. This was around 1:15am, with not another car in sight for my whole 2.5 mile drive from my sister's house. I took a turn too fast, hit a curb and bent my control arm. I didn't pop my tire or anything, and my car was still mobile. I was about a block from home so I limped my car into my driveway. I was standing there pondering how much of a dumbass I was when a police cruiser slid to a stop behind my car and an officer jumped out, pointed his gun at me and started screaming for me to get on the ground. Obviously I complied. Turns out he saw me hit the curb while he was chatting with another officer. From where he was, it took him a few minutes to get to me. The long and short of it is now I have a case #, hit-and-run on file, paid lawyer and a court date next week. I took numerous photos of the curb which was undamaged except for over 100 black marks - one of which was probably mine. Yes, I made a mistake, yes it was my fault - completely, but, hit and run??? As it looks if things don't go well, I will have high risk insurance for a few years because I "exhibited an unsafe turning movement, and fled the scene of an accident." Though, since it was my fault and I gave the officer the chance to do what he did - I will accept whatever consequences come my way no matter how stupid I may think it is. I can acknowledge that I basically asked for it.

I still cannot get a straight answer out of anyone about this but think for yourself what would happen if you called 911 and said "I just hit a curb, my car is mobile, no one else was involved and there is no property damage other than my own - what should I do?" Chances are you would be called an idiot, yelled at for wasting resources and hung up on. Yet, I have a hit and run because I hit a curb. It's these grey areas that give officers the leeway to invent facts and conjur up reasons to 'contact' people. Giving them even more baseless reasons to pull someone over IMHO will only worsen this situation.

Personally I would LOVE to see an officer have a chat with any one of the people who drive like maniacs in my neighborhood. There is a dude with a Harley who sometimes passes by 8-10 times after 10pm (yes I have counted). There's a guy in a golf with no mods other than an open exhaust (not visable) who drag launches from my corner a few times every day. Bikes that go by so fast I cannot even ID them. None of these people fit "the profile" however and personally I do not believe this new category will really do anything to fix this problem in my area.

I completely agree with the F&F comments and such like that. Personally, to put it simply, I would like to see people getting "contacted" for actually committing crimes no matter what their cars look like. If a cop would chill in the shadows at the gas station near my house they would see plenty of crazy things. If they would park a cruiser there on a random day each week for a month (not even with a cop inside, just to make the presence) even THAT would change things.

My car has 3 illegal things on it, and it is very loud. Every time I drive it I know that I could get in trouble because of it. The benefits of these modifications are slowly slipping away. I have my ScoobySport axleback because I love ScoobySport and WRC. I have my header because I like the way it makes my car perform and sound. The intake I have may or may not be legal - I do not know. None of these things go against the intent of the law however they are illegal and I would have no problem owning up to them. What I would have a problem with is an officer telling me that other things I have on my car are illegal based on the 3x illegal things I do have combined with his lack of knowledge of cars in general.

I feel that it is very irresponsible for officers to be handing out citations for illegal mods that aren't illegal. Sure this might be rare, but you do hear about it. I have a friend who got pulled over in his 100% stock STi based on the spoiler and tailpipe. If he was doing something wrong - GREAT - cite him for it! A bone stock STi is not basis for pulling someone over just because the officer was told those items = street racer. Do you see what I mean?

Like I said, if I were to see any one of the people I have seen doing crazy things in my area get pulled over, I think that would be great. If I saw even 1 riced out car in my area doing stupid things I would be all for this. I personally have not seen a street race for years now, though I know they do still happen.

mudman

That is ridiculous, charged with hit and run for leaving a black mark on a curb????

I hope the judge dismisses this case, otherwise it's proof that the laws an ***.

rau

iTrader: (9)

WTF? is the curb pressing charges on you or some ****?

shadowcat

Cops are human. They make mistakes. They still have a tough job to do. Just because an unknowledgeable cop tries to bust someone in a factory STi does not make all cops bad. Sure, I've heard from friends about they hassles they had to deal with when STis first hit the scene, but how many have happened RECENTLY? Cops get educated when they screw up for giving a citation on a factory stock, fully legal car. The ticket gets kicked back, the officer gets questioned why he cited a fully legal car, and he gets educated one way or another. So.. how many of these STi mistakes have happened recently?

I'm not out to defend all cops, because there are specific examples of cop abuse (Rosetti and company), but I do know that mistakes happen. A friend of mine used to keep the window sticker of his EVO , along with a few "new car guide" publications with the EVO pages bookmarked, to show to any cop that tried to give him tickets for his exhaust and rear spoiler. It was a fully stock EVO. He was prepared in case an uneducated cop tried to hassle him. It worked, to the extent that he talked himself out of tickets the 3 times he was pulled over for the appearance of his car. He knew it was a possibility after hearing stories I told him from i-club, and he prepared himself accordingly. He also didn't drive like an asshat.

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

Got the wink, and while I admit to driving like an asshat in order to get me where I am now, I am usually a very good and courteous driver. I have no speeding tickets (all I have ever gotten before) on my record past 1/99 and this is my second accident in 13 years of driving. The first was a spin and tap of a guard rail in the rain in my Pathfinder with bad tires (still my fault) and cost $200 for a new bumper cover.

I really believe you are taking this 'devils advocate' position a little far, while I do see what you are saying. I mostly can see this because I have a very good friend who takes it even further than you. The 'cops are human' argument is way more than played out, and no one seems to take into consideration that - what can be a simple error in judgment, mistake or whatever is trivial for the cop but can be a huge real-world hassle for the person who is the victim of the mistake.

I personally am not a cop for a few reasons. The main reason is that I know I don't have what it takes to 'contact' jerk after jerk nor do I possess the ability to relate to a new person as if I hadn't had to relate to a previous one (treating every new case equally as if the last guy hadn't been a real ***). Cops may be human, but part of their requirement is correct and justifyable enforcement of the law. So in effect, part of their job description is to be better than human. When they make a mistake and get a hand slapping, maybe they learn and maybe the don't. Someone left with an unjustified citation can most likely get it turned around, but it's not automatic and it usually is a real pain in the ***.

jdepould

iTrader: (2)

Pulling a gun seems a little excessive for hitting a curb . . . but maybe it's just me. Don't they have to fill out extra paperwork if they pull their gun out too?

rau

iTrader: (9)

yup

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

Yes, it seemed very excessive to me. I didn't see the officers who saw me (I understand after going back to the scene) and I was pretty damn surprised to see them when they swooped up behind my car. There was some stuff about me not obeying the officer's commands but it's BS, I dropped my keys and was on the ground the second I saw the gun. I was quite surprised to see the officers in the first place, but the gun pointed at me made that go away quickly.

The police report was very creative but my lawyer and I cannot see any reason for the gun to be pulled. The officer stated that after seeing my vehicle "flee the scene of an accident" he saw me "yelling at the passenger" and "thinking that a domestic disturbance had just occurred he pulled his duty weapon." In truth I was standing on my driver's side staring at my LF wheel that was a little farther back than it used to be. There's a lot more to the story after this, but that was all that was relevant.

GotBoost?

iTrader: (3)

This is pretty much what my argument consists of. I understand where ShadowCat is coming from, and I do understand why he feels the way he does on this subject. But (maybe I'm wrong) I think he is overlooking a very relevant and important point. The world is not perfect, nor are people (and yes cops and lawmakers are people). This is were MY problem is.....(1)The lawmakers and politicians can be, and usually are very crooked people that are only out to make money for themselves, and can/will/often pass frivilous laws just to make some corporate big wig happy, or to gain a position of power(read as getting big campaign sponsorships and the like), plus many of these laws have "hidden" verbage or addendums somewhere in their text that the common voter knows nothing about (Patriot Act comes to mind) Then ofcourse they will justify it by telling the Tax payers/voters exactly what they want to hear, so the law will be passed without any hitches. A good example is AAAAhnold! Our wonderful governor of CA.....how many promises did he make to the general public before he was elected, and how many of those promises actually materialized? I seem to recall a huge debate about how he wasn't sticking to his word, it was all over the news. Anyone remember?

Now, part 2 is a few notches down on the totem pole......so you have crooked politicians (for the most part) making frivilous laws to make certain parties happy in order to gain sponsorship money. Now you have the police officers who are supposed to enforce these laws. Granted they are "just doing their jobs," But what happens when you get officers that are also abusing their powers of authority? (This part deals with the original subject of this thread) So now you have a law that states that a sticker, aftermarket rim/low profile tire combo, or a wing (factory or not), all of which are NON-Carb regulated, NON-Illegal "mods" that have become "probable cause" to pull you over. Explain to me how that is NOT BS? Alot of cars today come from the assembly line with some or ALL of these "mods," So now these factory stock cars "fit the streetracing profile" as set by these new laws, and will probably be hassled for no other reason than they fit a profile reguardless of whether they actually did anything wrong or not (in particular, STI's, EVO's, and yes, even SRT-4's just to name a few, but also included are Bimmers, Benzes and even alot of trucks now). Then there's the issue about having "meets." The CBS article states:
Why are they assuming that just because there are cars hanging out together, that its because they are, have been, or will be going out street racing? Whatever happened to the First Amendment and the right to PEACEABLY assemble? They are making it sound like any and all cars that are even mildly modified (with legal parts I might add), are street racers, or that if there are a bunch of cars hanging out in a parking lot together somewhere, that they ARE discussing going street racing or just came from a street race.....period. They dont even think to mention that there *MIGHT* be people out there that just like to make their cars look a certain way, because we like it, and we meet up with like-minded people because we are enthusiastic LAW ABIDING citizens who just love our cars, and like them to look good. Basically they are saying, that if you have any of these parts (legal or not) that you ARE a street racer (atleast thats how I understand it)......and I Definitely have a problem with that.......

-Ted

EDIT: WombatSauce.....wow man, I'm really sorry to hear all that crap happened to you. I'm glad you are ok. But I am even more sorry that now you have to deal with all that other BS now, due to the officer "just doing his job."

okpanic

A cop can tell you to pop your hood and give you tickets for anything illegal he wants. But unless he has probable cause to suspect a felony is being commited he CANNOT search any other part of you vehicle without your permisson or a warrant. This is your 4th ammendment right. So if a cop ever asks to search your vehicle say no. If he doesn't immediately take you into custody he can't search a damn thing other than the engine

gh0st shad0w

iTrader: (9)

I tried this a few years ago in my Integra and the cop said if I didn't cooperate he'll just impound the car immediately and stick me with the bill. Mind you the only thing done to my car was coilovers and rims. So I just popped the hood and let him waste 45 minutes of my time.

projectwrx

discrimination

SUBY_6_STI

iTrader: (2)

Hey I did that too in my Pathfinder, but I took out a call box....that call box saved my life and I wasn't making a call.