Alameda Firefighters & Cops watch dude drown!
06-02-2011, 06:21 PM
#31
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Oh I get it now.. He swam out there to act helpless so that he could have the chance to stab anyone that tried to help him with the harpoon he had hidden in anus. Fortunately the 75 people watching knew he was a criminal mastermind, axe-murdering, psychopath and knew better than to fall into his trap. Luckily the plan backfired and he is dead now. Let's celebrate no one had to go in and get all cold and wet - cause that sucks. 
This whole story leaves me so conflicted.
This whole story leaves me so conflicted.
i don't think anyone's celebrating anything here.
melodramatic much? my god...
you, my friend, are nuts.
06-02-2011, 06:24 PM
#32
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why do you think he swam out there? so that police/firemen/random hero could rescue him?
and how do all these crazy a** libs even drive soobies? shouldn't they be in nissan leafs? wait... these are the same people that complain about gas prices and at the same time vote against off-shore drilling. FML. the same f*ing people that say that everyone should help everyone, then drive home like assclown sh*theads who don't care about anyone's safety or laws for that matter... everyone should step back and take a good look at their lifestyle behavior. even me. but seriously.
and how do all these crazy a** libs even drive soobies? shouldn't they be in nissan leafs? wait... these are the same people that complain about gas prices and at the same time vote against off-shore drilling. FML. the same f*ing people that say that everyone should help everyone, then drive home like assclown sh*theads who don't care about anyone's safety or laws for that matter... everyone should step back and take a good look at their lifestyle behavior. even me. but seriously.
Last edited by NorCalPaintball; 06-02-2011 at 06:31 PM.
06-02-2011, 06:38 PM
#33
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I totally agree to a lot of stuff you ahve said but it just was not worth it for them, it takes so much money to do so, most likley with this patient not going to pay. life flight is like 10 grand for one rescue and calstar is a bit more from what i remember. but what kind of back up would you ahve had if you went in with a lifejacket, its not a matter of fact of weapons its the person themselves in an instable condition.
My life jacket comment was in reference to when he went limp.
I think it was a matter or disorganization between military and local resources.
06-02-2011, 07:00 PM
#34
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My question is with the coast guard and why didn't they send a helicopter with armed rescue swimmers who are trained in both rescue and combat to take care of the situation if they couldn't get a boat in there. CHP also operates a rescue helicoper which has an armed officer on board.
06-02-2011, 07:03 PM
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You are incorrect sir, money wouldn't be the factor, you only have to pay for private air ambulances, and I was taking about a rescue airship, not an air ambulance. Calstar and Reach are both private air ambulances that do not participate in rescue operations. CHP operates a dual role while the coast guard I believe is considered rescue only. The cost is eaten by the tax payers. If you ever get transported to a hospital by CHP its free too.
My life jacket comment was in reference to when he went limp.
I think it was a matter or disorganization between military and local resources.
My life jacket comment was in reference to when he went limp.
I think it was a matter or disorganization between military and local resources.
06-02-2011, 07:13 PM
#36
**** that. Rescue then deal with the consequences. If you choose public safety as a passion and a career then you should be willing to put your *** on the line even if that means your job. Do you realize the media fallout that would happen if you we're you canned for rescueing someone.
06-02-2011, 07:26 PM
#37
Here's why i got mad respect for firemen
http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=2202664&spid=
Rip v. Perez!
http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=2202664&spid=
Rip v. Perez!
06-02-2011, 07:27 PM
#38
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I know plenty of people who have been very close to getting fired for going against policy, regardless of whether it was for the greater good. What is right has very little to do with Management covering their asses by aggressive use of policy.
06-02-2011, 08:52 PM
#39
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Understand what is going on, the dude is in walking depth, maybe up to his shoulders and stood there for an hour and froze and went unconscious and finally fell over.
The guy is asking for attention, in most men suicide cases men end it a lot more violently and accomplish it 80% of the time. I still disagree with the decision. Sure his mental state was in question, but there had to be something a team could have done to get him in safe, and get him to a mental hospital for evaluation.
Rubber bullets, choking him out from behind, anything really.
The guy is asking for attention, in most men suicide cases men end it a lot more violently and accomplish it 80% of the time. I still disagree with the decision. Sure his mental state was in question, but there had to be something a team could have done to get him in safe, and get him to a mental hospital for evaluation.
Rubber bullets, choking him out from behind, anything really.
06-02-2011, 09:52 PM
#40
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Oh I get it now.. He swam out there to act helpless so that he could have the chance to stab anyone that tried to help him with the harpoon he had hidden in anus. Fortunately the 75 people watching knew he was a criminal mastermind, axe-murdering, psychopath and knew better than to fall into his trap. Luckily the plan backfired and he is dead now. Let's celebrate no one had to go in and get all cold and wet - cause that sucks.
This whole story leaves me so conflicted.
This whole story leaves me so conflicted.
MVP best post in thread.
You are incorrect sir, money wouldn't be the factor, you only have to pay for private air ambulances, and I was taking about a rescue airship, not an air ambulance. Calstar and Reach are both private air ambulances that do not participate in rescue operations. CHP operates a dual role while the coast guard I believe is considered rescue only. The cost is eaten by the tax payers. If you ever get transported to a hospital by CHP its free too.
My life jacket comment was in reference to when he went limp.
I think it was a matter or disorganization between military and local resources.
My life jacket comment was in reference to when he went limp.
I think it was a matter or disorganization between military and local resources.
if someone is drowning and i have a lifejacket and the ability to save them, i wouldnt think twice. well maybe if there was a great white in the water :P
i was given that scenario once in santa cruz and i almost near drowned trying to help a guy and his kid but this was without a lifejacket. when he was trying to claw onto me, i gave him my bodyboard and swam back to shore. with one it wouldnt have been a problem.
06-02-2011, 10:50 PM
#41
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so if a plane is about to get hijacked by a gunman, how many of you would remain seated again becuase i dont think your life insurance covers intentionally putting your life in harms way either.
if someone is drowning and i have a lifejacket and the ability to save them, i wouldnt think twice. well maybe if there was a great white in the water :P
i was given that scenario once in santa cruz and i almost near drowned trying to help a guy and his kid but this was without a lifejacket. when he was trying to claw onto me, i gave him my bodyboard and swam back to shore. with one it wouldnt have been a problem.
if someone is drowning and i have a lifejacket and the ability to save them, i wouldnt think twice. well maybe if there was a great white in the water :P
i was given that scenario once in santa cruz and i almost near drowned trying to help a guy and his kid but this was without a lifejacket. when he was trying to claw onto me, i gave him my bodyboard and swam back to shore. with one it wouldnt have been a problem.
If the guy was merely drowning, there would have been no issue because they would've gone out there no problem, its the fact that he was desperate enough to kill himself and is potentially dangerous in addition to the danger of an untrained water rescue.
There's a big difference between calculated risk and reckless risk.
06-03-2011, 12:24 AM
#43
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so cops and firemen are now supposed to be lifeguards on-duty?
all i know is that i would NOT have gone in there to save a guy who's suicidal... i have done lifeguarding before as a job 10+ years ago and used to swim and play waterpolo, so am a very strong swimmer.
it's common knowledge that if/when someone is drowning, they will instinctively just grab and hold onto anything they can, i.e. you when you go out to save him... they end up almost always taking the other person down with them, unless they have all the necessary equipment.
if they do grab you and are trying to take you down, I'd literally punch him square in the face or gouge his eye out (no joke) to have him let go, so then I can help "save" his life a bit easier and more safely for us both.
maybe just lasso him with a rope around his neck and drag him to shore?
hahah, some people are funny sometimes with their logic, or lackthereof.
I am not going out into the water to save some guy who's trying to kill himself and risk my entire life/family doing it without the proper equipment or training/responsibility. i mean seriously, what the F*CK are you trying to ask our police/firemen to do here? you're really trying to complain about everything?
we (most people) always just need someone to blame and b*tch and moan about versus looking at the big picture here.
in hindsight: they prob just should have tossed a rope around him after they got into the water and literally just dragged his *** out... then immediately arrest him for being a toolbag.
to all the butthurt people- you're seriously telling me that you would have been in that water? before he was unconcious?
do you even have to know how to swim to be a cop or a fireman?
also, same is true for every job... first thing is, check to see if that's my job/responsibility. if not, push back... everyone's guilty of this.
all i know is that i would NOT have gone in there to save a guy who's suicidal... i have done lifeguarding before as a job 10+ years ago and used to swim and play waterpolo, so am a very strong swimmer.
it's common knowledge that if/when someone is drowning, they will instinctively just grab and hold onto anything they can, i.e. you when you go out to save him... they end up almost always taking the other person down with them, unless they have all the necessary equipment.
if they do grab you and are trying to take you down, I'd literally punch him square in the face or gouge his eye out (no joke) to have him let go, so then I can help "save" his life a bit easier and more safely for us both.
maybe just lasso him with a rope around his neck and drag him to shore?
hahah, some people are funny sometimes with their logic, or lackthereof.
I am not going out into the water to save some guy who's trying to kill himself and risk my entire life/family doing it without the proper equipment or training/responsibility. i mean seriously, what the F*CK are you trying to ask our police/firemen to do here? you're really trying to complain about everything?
we (most people) always just need someone to blame and b*tch and moan about versus looking at the big picture here.
in hindsight: they prob just should have tossed a rope around him after they got into the water and literally just dragged his *** out... then immediately arrest him for being a toolbag.
to all the butthurt people- you're seriously telling me that you would have been in that water? before he was unconcious?
do you even have to know how to swim to be a cop or a fireman?
also, same is true for every job... first thing is, check to see if that's my job/responsibility. if not, push back... everyone's guilty of this.
06-03-2011, 12:56 AM
#44
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You are comparing apples to oranges, rescuing someone who's trying to kill themselves when you are only in danger by intervening is completely different than if you and others are in danger and are reacting to that danger.
If the guy was merely drowning, there would have been no issue because they would've gone out there no problem, its the fact that he was desperate enough to kill himself and is potentially dangerous in addition to the danger of an untrained water rescue.
There's a big difference between calculated risk and reckless risk.
If the guy was merely drowning, there would have been no issue because they would've gone out there no problem, its the fact that he was desperate enough to kill himself and is potentially dangerous in addition to the danger of an untrained water rescue.
There's a big difference between calculated risk and reckless risk.
"Well, if I was off duty, I would know what I would do, but I think you're asking me my on-duty response, and I would have to stay within our policies and procedures because that's what's required by our department to do," Alameda Fire Division Chief Ricci Zombeck said when asked by KGO TV ABC7 if he would enter the water to save a drowning child.
The San Jose Mercury News says Alameda police and firefighters responded quickly to a 911 call about an attempted suicide off Crown Beach, but firefighters could not enter the water because they are not trained in land/water rescue
Interim Fire Chief Mike D'Orazi said the department's water rescue program was shelved in 2009 because of budget cuts, which affected training. As a result, department policy prevented firefighters from going into the water in such cases.
If a man was jumping off a building, they certainly wouldnt stand on the ground and just watch. The same should be expected in water if it falls in their protection area.
Last edited by FXTbrah; 06-03-2011 at 01:00 AM.
06-03-2011, 07:37 AM
#45
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Would you expect a a recue crew who aren't trained for water recue to risk their *** if you were trying to drown yourself, not likely. Would you expect them to do it if you got swept out into the bay and were screaming for help, more than likely they'd help regardless of policy.
They don't risk their lives if you threaten to jump off a building. Not knowing what they're doing in the cold *** water trying to rescue a drowning person involves much more risk to the rescuer.
They don't risk their lives if you threaten to jump off a building. Not knowing what they're doing in the cold *** water trying to rescue a drowning person involves much more risk to the rescuer.