Alameda Firefighters & Cops watch dude drown!
06-02-2011, 08:56 AM
#1
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Alameda Firefighters & Cops watch dude drown!
The fire chief stated on MICROPHONE that if it was a child he'd have to watch them die, too. Due to POLICY! He stated if he was on duty, per policy, they cannot go into the water and save the guy. If he was OFF DUTY, he would have went in there and saved him...
Sounds like we need more citizens and off duty firefighters and cops.
They are not "certified" to rescue dudes from drowning! WHAT?!?
I like cops and firefighters, but this bureaucracy bullcrap is killing our nation. The dude was less than 30 yards from them, about 75 feet and no one went into the water to rescue him!
In any case, common sense is dead! Back in the day there weren't all of these things with certificates about everything. If someone is drowning, you go out and save them!
An off duty nurse in the area finally went to save the dude after an hour. The guy who died walked into the bay and stood in the cold water for an hour until he passed out.
Huge TIP: Don't drown in the bay area, cuz officers & firefighters won't save your ***.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ictim-drowns/1
Sounds like we need more citizens and off duty firefighters and cops.
They are not "certified" to rescue dudes from drowning! WHAT?!?
I like cops and firefighters, but this bureaucracy bullcrap is killing our nation. The dude was less than 30 yards from them, about 75 feet and no one went into the water to rescue him!
In any case, common sense is dead! Back in the day there weren't all of these things with certificates about everything. If someone is drowning, you go out and save them!
An off duty nurse in the area finally went to save the dude after an hour. The guy who died walked into the bay and stood in the cold water for an hour until he passed out.
Huge TIP: Don't drown in the bay area, cuz officers & firefighters won't save your ***.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ictim-drowns/1
Last edited by iLoqin; 06-02-2011 at 08:59 AM.
06-02-2011, 09:48 AM
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The fire chief stated on MICROPHONE that if it was a child he'd have to watch them die, too. Due to POLICY! He stated if he was on duty, per policy, they cannot go into the water and save the guy. If he was OFF DUTY, he would have went in there and saved him...
Sounds like we need more citizens and off duty firefighters and cops.
They are not "certified" to rescue dudes from drowning! WHAT?!?
I like cops and firefighters, but this bureaucracy bullcrap is killing our nation. The dude was less than 30 yards from them, about 75 feet and no one went into the water to rescue him!
In any case, common sense is dead! Back in the day there weren't all of these things with certificates about everything. If someone is drowning, you go out and save them!
An off duty nurse in the area finally went to save the dude after an hour. The guy who died walked into the bay and stood in the cold water for an hour until he passed out.
Huge TIP: Don't drown in the bay area, cuz officers & firefighters won't save your ***.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ictim-drowns/1
Sounds like we need more citizens and off duty firefighters and cops.
They are not "certified" to rescue dudes from drowning! WHAT?!?
I like cops and firefighters, but this bureaucracy bullcrap is killing our nation. The dude was less than 30 yards from them, about 75 feet and no one went into the water to rescue him!
In any case, common sense is dead! Back in the day there weren't all of these things with certificates about everything. If someone is drowning, you go out and save them!
An off duty nurse in the area finally went to save the dude after an hour. The guy who died walked into the bay and stood in the cold water for an hour until he passed out.
Huge TIP: Don't drown in the bay area, cuz officers & firefighters won't save your ***.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ictim-drowns/1
06-02-2011, 10:05 AM
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There are a lot of factors at play which aren't obvious to the lay person, the perspective on the situation presented by the media leaves out a few key ingredients and in my opinion points fingers in the wrong places too. Also remember that its easy to Monday morning quarterback situations.
I'm not saying that this should have happened at all, in fact its embarrasing to all involved, but there's a few things that were at play here. The first thing that they teach you in any rescue/medical/fire class is personal safety for yourself and your crew meaning you die, not only does the person you're trying to rescue not get it, but now you have to be rescued too. The person was suicidal which deams them dangerous to themselves or others which makes it a law enforcement issue until cleared. There's a number of reasons, namely that they may have a gun or a weapon and that if they're to the point of killing themselves, they are to the point of killing someone who tries to stop them. In a normal suicide call the ambulance and fire truck don't even go on the same street as the call until the police have entered and disarmed the person or ensured that there's no weapons.
Beside the safety factors which would usually prevent rescue crews from even being close to the area, water rescue is difficult especially so for fire departments because it requires a lot of expensive and infrequently used equipment, and requires a lot of additional training. With the potential for violence, and lack of equipment/training it was unsafe for rescue crews. Also I don't know if you've ever been in a fight/subdue someone who's violent, but its already physically demanding, and when you fight on land you don't have to worry about keeping your head above the water to breathe. Also on land when someone has a knife or gun they can't hide it under the surface of the water.
My question is with the coast guard and why didn't they send a helicopter with armed rescue swimmers who are trained in both rescue and combat to take care of the situation if they couldn't get a boat in there. CHP also operates a rescue helicoper which has an armed officer on board.
Also that being said, I probably would've done it with a life jacket and some backup. When the person went limp they should've been in position to pull them to land and rescusitate.
I'm not saying that this should have happened at all, in fact its embarrasing to all involved, but there's a few things that were at play here. The first thing that they teach you in any rescue/medical/fire class is personal safety for yourself and your crew meaning you die, not only does the person you're trying to rescue not get it, but now you have to be rescued too. The person was suicidal which deams them dangerous to themselves or others which makes it a law enforcement issue until cleared. There's a number of reasons, namely that they may have a gun or a weapon and that if they're to the point of killing themselves, they are to the point of killing someone who tries to stop them. In a normal suicide call the ambulance and fire truck don't even go on the same street as the call until the police have entered and disarmed the person or ensured that there's no weapons.
Beside the safety factors which would usually prevent rescue crews from even being close to the area, water rescue is difficult especially so for fire departments because it requires a lot of expensive and infrequently used equipment, and requires a lot of additional training. With the potential for violence, and lack of equipment/training it was unsafe for rescue crews. Also I don't know if you've ever been in a fight/subdue someone who's violent, but its already physically demanding, and when you fight on land you don't have to worry about keeping your head above the water to breathe. Also on land when someone has a knife or gun they can't hide it under the surface of the water.
My question is with the coast guard and why didn't they send a helicopter with armed rescue swimmers who are trained in both rescue and combat to take care of the situation if they couldn't get a boat in there. CHP also operates a rescue helicoper which has an armed officer on board.
Also that being said, I probably would've done it with a life jacket and some backup. When the person went limp they should've been in position to pull them to land and rescusitate.
Last edited by code3suby; 06-02-2011 at 10:29 AM.
06-02-2011, 11:02 AM
#8
06-02-2011, 11:05 AM
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i dont see why people are so upset. the guy went there with the purpose of committing suicide. **** him let him die. im more upset they had multiple officers and firemen standing there getting paid with tax dollars to do nothing but stand around.
06-02-2011, 11:08 AM
#10
Seriously why are people mad? Suicide attempt + untrained crew = more deaths than just one...someone with improper training trying to save someone from drowning will drown themselves and require further help/assistance
Be mad at the upper levels who use our tax dollars to hire people but don't properly train them, not the people who were instructed not to do anything
Be mad at the upper levels who use our tax dollars to hire people but don't properly train them, not the people who were instructed not to do anything
Last edited by slugrx; 06-02-2011 at 11:11 AM.
06-02-2011, 11:30 AM
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Not to mention that IF they did save him and he got hurt he could sue. Most important thing they taught us in EMT training is if you don't have consent or implied consent, or your out of your spectrum of knowledge, DON"T INTERVENE.
As heartless as it sounds, he wanted to die and he got what he wanted. Save the tax payers dollars and let him do his thing. If he was caught in a riptide and pulled out to sea or something thats another can of worms. The fact is he was a lost soul and is now in a less disturbing state of mind.
As heartless as it sounds, he wanted to die and he got what he wanted. Save the tax payers dollars and let him do his thing. If he was caught in a riptide and pulled out to sea or something thats another can of worms. The fact is he was a lost soul and is now in a less disturbing state of mind.
06-02-2011, 12:18 PM
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Code3Suby: well said. Not to mention that ignoring department or agency policy is a great way to your insurance claims denied, whether medical or life insurance, as well as a great way to get your *** fired. "I am sorry Ma'am, but your husband ignored company policy, so you don't get anything from his life insurance"
Like Code3Suby and a couple others said, professional responders have to provide for personal safety before ANY action is taken to protect anyone or anything else. Going after a person who might be combative, in water, is a great way to get killed. Go watch some videos where trained, professional swift water rescuers get taken down by those they are trying to rescue if you don't believe us.
Like Code3Suby and a couple others said, professional responders have to provide for personal safety before ANY action is taken to protect anyone or anything else. Going after a person who might be combative, in water, is a great way to get killed. Go watch some videos where trained, professional swift water rescuers get taken down by those they are trying to rescue if you don't believe us.
06-02-2011, 01:00 PM
#15
International Association of Fire Fighters
Fire and police teams say City policy and budget cuts are to blame for emergency teams watching from shore while a 52-year-old man apparently took his own life in the Bay Area surf near San Francisco on Memorial Day.
Budget cuts keep cops, firefighters on beach as suicide victim drowns -
content.usatoday.com
Budget cuts keep cops, firefighters on beach as suicide victim drowns
Add us on Facebook. There are some serious issues that are addressed in a lot of the posts. But as my training capt always said your own life is not worth risking. He said it in a different way also, can't remember. When I do I'll post again.
Fire and police teams say City policy and budget cuts are to blame for emergency teams watching from shore while a 52-year-old man apparently took his own life in the Bay Area surf near San Francisco on Memorial Day.
Budget cuts keep cops, firefighters on beach as suicide victim drowns -
content.usatoday.com
Budget cuts keep cops, firefighters on beach as suicide victim drowns
Add us on Facebook. There are some serious issues that are addressed in a lot of the posts. But as my training capt always said your own life is not worth risking. He said it in a different way also, can't remember. When I do I'll post again.