$700 Billion Bail-out?
09-26-2008, 03:36 PM
#17
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Yeah you are right there. What im saying is that the gov. should be helping the home owners who are defaulting b/c. We default = the banks holding bad securities on these loans = this crash. kinda...
Yes, it does. You and i (along with the other 1 in 10 americans) "messed up" which is a major cause of this collapse.
That's very valid point. That's why i was asking for VALID sources to read (like fox news "fair and equal" ... full of ****).
Im not saying that i don't agree w/ the bailout (we NEED it now) but i am saying that we DO indeed really need to know what is "really" going on too.
1. Sub-prime lending?
2. Buy a home w/ ZERO money down ($700,000 and up) loans w/ no money down?
3. Accepting loans when they knew that when the arms would adjust in 5 years, leaving families to be screwed when those rates adjusted?
4. Predator lenders?
5. Bad investments by these banks?
6. etc?
I would love to see this from the standpoint of people in the high financial industry, but where are they in times of trouble? Are they hiding out? Putting up smoke screens (like Lehman Bros <i think it was them> buying up their own stocks and others... etc) until they go bust?
The problem i do have with high position people in the finance industry (or any industry for that matter) is corruption. Yes, i know it is hard to believe that someone in a high position would ever even think about doing anything corrupt to get rich and screw us.
Im just saying that it seems like every time crap goes south, it is us the hard workers, the scum on the bottom of the barrel (the backbone of america) that have to pay for the mistakes of the top 1%. And where are they in this time? They can afford it. It's just one less high-end car they will own.
Dude... im blowing off steam... nothing personal to you. If you can give me more sources, i would love to see them.
Im not saying that i don't agree w/ the bailout (we NEED it now) but i am saying that we DO indeed really need to know what is "really" going on too.
1. Sub-prime lending?
2. Buy a home w/ ZERO money down ($700,000 and up) loans w/ no money down?
3. Accepting loans when they knew that when the arms would adjust in 5 years, leaving families to be screwed when those rates adjusted?
4. Predator lenders?
5. Bad investments by these banks?
6. etc?
I would love to see this from the standpoint of people in the high financial industry, but where are they in times of trouble? Are they hiding out? Putting up smoke screens (like Lehman Bros <i think it was them> buying up their own stocks and others... etc) until they go bust?
The problem i do have with high position people in the finance industry (or any industry for that matter) is corruption. Yes, i know it is hard to believe that someone in a high position would ever even think about doing anything corrupt to get rich and screw us.
Im just saying that it seems like every time crap goes south, it is us the hard workers, the scum on the bottom of the barrel (the backbone of america) that have to pay for the mistakes of the top 1%. And where are they in this time? They can afford it. It's just one less high-end car they will own.
Dude... im blowing off steam... nothing personal to you. If you can give me more sources, i would love to see them.
Last edited by tony1w; 09-26-2008 at 03:40 PM.
... no reelection there.
09-26-2008, 04:18 PM
#19
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Yeah you are right there. What im saying is that the gov. should be helping the home owners who are defaulting b/c. We default = the banks holding bad securities on these loans = this crash. kinda...
Yes, it does. You and i (along with the other 1 in 10 americans) "messed up" which is a major cause of this collapse.
That's very valid point. That's why i was asking for VALID sources to read (like fox news "fair and equal" ... full of ****).
Im not saying that i don't agree w/ the bailout (we NEED it now) but i am saying that we DO indeed really need to know what is "really" going on too.
1. Sub-prime lending?
2. Buy a home w/ ZERO money down ($700,000 and up) loans w/ no money down?
3. Accepting loans when they knew that when the arms would adjust in 5 years, leaving families to be screwed when those rates adjusted?
4. Predator lenders?
5. Bad investments by these banks?
6. etc?
I would love to see this from the standpoint of people in the high financial industry, but where are they in times of trouble? Are they hiding out? Putting up smoke screens (like Lehman Bros <i think it was them> buying up their own stocks and others... etc) until they go bust?
The problem i do have with high position people in the finance industry (or any industry for that matter) is corruption. Yes, i know it is hard to believe that someone in a high position would ever even think about doing anything corrupt to get rich and screw us.
Im just saying that it seems like every time crap goes south, it is us the hard workers, the scum on the bottom of the barrel (the backbone of america) that have to pay for the mistakes of the top 1%. And where are they in this time? They can afford it. It's just one less high-end car they will own.
Dude... im blowing off steam... nothing personal to you. If you can give me more sources, i would love to see them.
Yes, it does. You and i (along with the other 1 in 10 americans) "messed up" which is a major cause of this collapse.
That's very valid point. That's why i was asking for VALID sources to read (like fox news "fair and equal" ... full of ****).
Im not saying that i don't agree w/ the bailout (we NEED it now) but i am saying that we DO indeed really need to know what is "really" going on too.
1. Sub-prime lending?
2. Buy a home w/ ZERO money down ($700,000 and up) loans w/ no money down?
3. Accepting loans when they knew that when the arms would adjust in 5 years, leaving families to be screwed when those rates adjusted?
4. Predator lenders?
5. Bad investments by these banks?
6. etc?
I would love to see this from the standpoint of people in the high financial industry, but where are they in times of trouble? Are they hiding out? Putting up smoke screens (like Lehman Bros <i think it was them> buying up their own stocks and others... etc) until they go bust?
The problem i do have with high position people in the finance industry (or any industry for that matter) is corruption. Yes, i know it is hard to believe that someone in a high position would ever even think about doing anything corrupt to get rich and screw us.
Im just saying that it seems like every time crap goes south, it is us the hard workers, the scum on the bottom of the barrel (the backbone of america) that have to pay for the mistakes of the top 1%. And where are they in this time? They can afford it. It's just one less high-end car they will own.
Dude... im blowing off steam... nothing personal to you. If you can give me more sources, i would love to see them.
Instead of riding out the .com downfall, they invented ways to keep markets afloat knowing damn well that these markets would fall apart years later.
09-30-2008, 11:35 AM
#23
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQhHxKz1hEQ
You tell 'em Dr Paul... you tell 'em...
****, Pete is right, why don't just start printing million dollar notes!
You tell 'em Dr Paul... you tell 'em...
****, Pete is right, why don't just start printing million dollar notes!
09-30-2008, 11:47 AM
#24
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Is it just me or is anyone seeing parallels to the 1980's S&L scandal and bailout by the government?
I read today that they want to increase the FDIC's insurance limit from $100,000 to $250,000 - strange they would want to as the average American only has $32,000 in savings.
This is EXACTLY what happened in the 80's - they upped the S&L liability from something like $40,000 to $100,000 even though the average American only had $11,000 in savings: then unscrupulous executives would gut a S&L and get all the government bailout cash in full.
There was a player in the S&L scandal, I think his name was something like Daniel Fail (I know the last name is right, first name I could be off) he invested $1,000 of his own money - which 'bought' him 16 failing thrifts and he got something along the lines of $1.5 billion in federal subsidies.
Anyone starting to see a pattern?
Oh! And in 1986 when the S&L scandal was starting to go down (just as the sub prime scandal was last year) they WAITED until 1988 (**which was an election year**) to do ANYTHING about it. Shocker!
Sad but true, I foresee this getting murkier and murkier.
I read today that they want to increase the FDIC's insurance limit from $100,000 to $250,000 - strange they would want to as the average American only has $32,000 in savings.
This is EXACTLY what happened in the 80's - they upped the S&L liability from something like $40,000 to $100,000 even though the average American only had $11,000 in savings: then unscrupulous executives would gut a S&L and get all the government bailout cash in full.
There was a player in the S&L scandal, I think his name was something like Daniel Fail (I know the last name is right, first name I could be off) he invested $1,000 of his own money - which 'bought' him 16 failing thrifts and he got something along the lines of $1.5 billion in federal subsidies.
Anyone starting to see a pattern?
Oh! And in 1986 when the S&L scandal was starting to go down (just as the sub prime scandal was last year) they WAITED until 1988 (**which was an election year**) to do ANYTHING about it. Shocker!
Sad but true, I foresee this getting murkier and murkier.
09-30-2008, 11:58 AM
#26
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This is what Ron Paul had to say with Wolf Blitzer: "Wolf Blitzer: What do you say to the president who wants you and your fellow Republicans and Democrats to quickly pass this $700 billion bailout package?
Paul: Well, I think that's a mistake because we don't have the money. But that doesn't mean you have to do nothing. I mean, we could reform the system. We could return to sound money. We could balance our budget. We could change our foreign policy. We could take care of our people at home. We could lower taxes.
There's a lot of things that we can do. But the worst thing that we can do is perpetuate the bad policies that gave us this trouble in the first place, and that is that we no longer, over the last quite a few decades, believed in free-market capitalism. Capital is supposed to come from savings. We're supposed to work hard and save.
As a matter of fact, the Chinese work hard, right now, and they save, and they're buying up the world. But we borrow and spend and consume, and now it's caught up to us and it's undermining our whole system. ... So this $700 billion is not going to do it.
Paul also argued that ...
... contrary to the White House's contention, this plan does not help Main Street.
"This is Wall Street in big trouble and sucking in Main Street, now, and dumping all the bills on Main Street. ... And you can't solve the problem of inflation, which is the creation of money and credit out of thin air, by more money and credit out of thin air, and not changing policy. We have to change basic policy.
"Yes, it would be painful, but it wouldn't last so long. What they're doing now, they're propping up a failed system so the agony lasts longer. They're doing exactly what we did in the Depression."
"So, yes, there are going to be losses, but everybody lived beyond their means when the prices of houses were going up. Nobody cared about it. They kept borrowing against it. Oh, yes, that was fine and dandy. Everybody was making money, and the owner of the home kept borrowing and living beyond their means. Now they have to live beneath their means.
"What the government is doing now -- and this new program is trying to prop up prices. You want the price structure to adjust. You want the price of houses to go down. You don't want to fix the price of housing. You can't price-fix. We've had too much of that.
"We need a market economy. We need to believe in ourselves. We need to believe and understand how the economy got us -- how the government got us into this mess. And believe me, it wouldn't be that tough. It would be a bad year. But, this way, it's going to be a bad decade."
Paul: Well, I think that's a mistake because we don't have the money. But that doesn't mean you have to do nothing. I mean, we could reform the system. We could return to sound money. We could balance our budget. We could change our foreign policy. We could take care of our people at home. We could lower taxes.
There's a lot of things that we can do. But the worst thing that we can do is perpetuate the bad policies that gave us this trouble in the first place, and that is that we no longer, over the last quite a few decades, believed in free-market capitalism. Capital is supposed to come from savings. We're supposed to work hard and save.
As a matter of fact, the Chinese work hard, right now, and they save, and they're buying up the world. But we borrow and spend and consume, and now it's caught up to us and it's undermining our whole system. ... So this $700 billion is not going to do it.
Paul also argued that ...
... contrary to the White House's contention, this plan does not help Main Street.
"This is Wall Street in big trouble and sucking in Main Street, now, and dumping all the bills on Main Street. ... And you can't solve the problem of inflation, which is the creation of money and credit out of thin air, by more money and credit out of thin air, and not changing policy. We have to change basic policy.
"Yes, it would be painful, but it wouldn't last so long. What they're doing now, they're propping up a failed system so the agony lasts longer. They're doing exactly what we did in the Depression."
"So, yes, there are going to be losses, but everybody lived beyond their means when the prices of houses were going up. Nobody cared about it. They kept borrowing against it. Oh, yes, that was fine and dandy. Everybody was making money, and the owner of the home kept borrowing and living beyond their means. Now they have to live beneath their means.
"What the government is doing now -- and this new program is trying to prop up prices. You want the price structure to adjust. You want the price of houses to go down. You don't want to fix the price of housing. You can't price-fix. We've had too much of that.
"We need a market economy. We need to believe in ourselves. We need to believe and understand how the economy got us -- how the government got us into this mess. And believe me, it wouldn't be that tough. It would be a bad year. But, this way, it's going to be a bad decade."
09-30-2008, 12:01 PM
#27
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One last thing: and this is going to sound condescending but oh well: email or fax your senators guys.
I really mean it, if enough people tell their senators/representatives that we will not vote for you come re-election if you vote yes on this bill, we will see it defeated.
I really mean it, if enough people tell their senators/representatives that we will not vote for you come re-election if you vote yes on this bill, we will see it defeated.
09-30-2008, 12:04 PM
#29
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Something needs to be done. However the plan as is is complete and utter BS. Trading the money for warrants which could be redeemed for non-voting stock. If they are going to bail these companies out they should use Warren Buffet as an example and use the money to purchase Senior Preferred Stock and give the tax payers a voice in the company which they have bailed out. Something needs to be done, the Banking industry needs liquidity to conduct business, there is no liquidity right now and thus the business of banking has come to a grinnding hault.