RRFPR fitting
09-24-2003, 08:42 AM
#1
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RRFPR fitting
Hey, I pulled off my S-AFC because it sucks, instead opting for a RRFPR. What's the best way to install it? I know that I'll need some sort of a fitting where the stock regulator meets the fuel rail. I checked weapon-r, but they couldn't help me. Suggestions-BAN, Bill, and Alex if you guys could throw in a word that would be very cool. Thanks,
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09-24-2003, 05:19 PM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Re: RRFPR fitting
Originally posted by impreza7
[B]Hey, I pulled off my S-AFC because it sucks, instead opting for a RRFPR.
[B]Hey, I pulled off my S-AFC because it sucks, instead opting for a RRFPR.
What's the best way to install it?
If anything, you should have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator from Paxton or Aeromotive. Adjust your base pressure, then for every 1 psi of air, you get another psi of fuel. This is just one link of the chain of accurate fuel delivery.
09-24-2003, 09:51 PM
#3
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Well, when you have to reset your car and idle it and readjust it every week after the stock ECU overrides it, just not what I signed up for. I know the best way is full engine management, but that's just not possible at this time. I just want to run low boost on my stock engine and not have to spend ever waking free minute f$%king with it. Once I get another car in 2 years or so, that's another story.
I've never had to adapt one to a Subaru before: So, what I need to know is how to make or where to buy a RRFPR fitting that will adapt to where my stocker sits on the fuel rail to cylinders 1 and 3. Thanks for your constructive and informed input.
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I've never had to adapt one to a Subaru before: So, what I need to know is how to make or where to buy a RRFPR fitting that will adapt to where my stocker sits on the fuel rail to cylinders 1 and 3. Thanks for your constructive and informed input.
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Last edited by impreza7; 09-24-2003 at 09:55 PM.
09-24-2003, 10:11 PM
#4
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Location: Western Washington
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Originally posted by impreza7
[B]Well, when you have to reset your car and idle it and readjust it every week after the stock ECU overrides it, just not what I signed up for.
[B]Well, when you have to reset your car and idle it and readjust it every week after the stock ECU overrides it, just not what I signed up for.
I know the best way is full engine management, but that's just not possible at this time.
I've never had to adapt one to a Subaru before: So, what I need to know is how to make or where to buy a RRFPR fitting that will adapt to where my stocker sits on the fuel rail to cylinders 1 and 3. Thanks for your constructive and informed input.
Since you've decided AGAINST stand-alone at this point, go for a Greddy E-manage. They're basically universal, and I've expirenced 1st hand how well it works on a custom turbo kit. It was on a honda with a returnless fuel system of all things, which is about 3 times as tricky to tune then a standard system. The e-manage you can typically get for about a third of the price of a good stand-alone system like the autronic.
So it's up to you. I've done this before with a couple different cars. How much of what i'm telling you you willing to accept?
Last edited by Jgrahn555; 09-25-2003 at 08:25 AM.
09-25-2003, 07:53 AM
#5
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Dude- Jgran555-why are you such a dillweed. You don't need to rip someone apart because they can't afford full stand alone. EVERYONE knows it's the best and right way to do it, but not everyone can afford it. SIMMER. You're giving Washington a bad rap.
Impreza7-
A RRFPR does not replace your original FPR. It goes down stream on the return line and works in series with the stock unit. If you go to here Bell Engineering Install Instructions the instructions are great.
Impreza7-
A RRFPR does not replace your original FPR. It goes down stream on the return line and works in series with the stock unit. If you go to here Bell Engineering Install Instructions the instructions are great.
09-25-2003, 08:32 AM
#6
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Originally posted by jid2
Dude- Jgran555-why are you such a dillweed. You don't need to rip someone apart because they can't afford full stand alone. EVERYONE knows it's the best and right way to do it, but not everyone can afford it. SIMMER. You're giving Washington a bad rap.
Dude- Jgran555-why are you such a dillweed. You don't need to rip someone apart because they can't afford full stand alone. EVERYONE knows it's the best and right way to do it, but not everyone can afford it. SIMMER. You're giving Washington a bad rap.
1: get an Aeromotive adjustable FPR. The one you need for your application is ~$125 from Summit or Jegs.
2: get an E-manage. That'll run ~$600. That's the only piggyback you can use that will "take the place" of a standalone.
Hell, don't listen to me. I'm just a salty internet nerd. GO FOR IT!
09-25-2003, 09:01 AM
#7
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So let me get this straight- I'm supposed to be making a better decision by going with ANOTHER piggyback?? And this one at twice the price? Ok, so we have $600 + $125 +$30 for hoses, parts, and other misc. crap= over $750. And a Link runs what, $900? Ok....Hmm...
I know where you're coming from, but I'm just out of money, JGrahn. Maximum power is no longer the goal. I'm going to run 5psi max, and I just want something to keep my engine richer than stock. People create reliable low boost turbo kits using these regs. all the time, so don't tell me it's not feasible.
jid2-
Thanks for the link, it's very good. ONe question though, a RRFPR works with your stocker, and an Adjustable Fuel Regulator replaces it?
Thanks to you both for your valuable view points and info.
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I know where you're coming from, but I'm just out of money, JGrahn. Maximum power is no longer the goal. I'm going to run 5psi max, and I just want something to keep my engine richer than stock. People create reliable low boost turbo kits using these regs. all the time, so don't tell me it's not feasible.
jid2-
Thanks for the link, it's very good. ONe question though, a RRFPR works with your stocker, and an Adjustable Fuel Regulator replaces it?
Thanks to you both for your valuable view points and info.
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09-25-2003, 09:29 AM
#8
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Originally posted by impreza7
So let me get this straight- I'm supposed to be making a better decision by going with ANOTHER piggyback??
So let me get this straight- I'm supposed to be making a better decision by going with ANOTHER piggyback??
And this one at twice the price? Ok, so we have $600 + $125 +$30 for hoses, parts, and other misc. crap= over $750. And a Link runs what, $900?
I know where you're coming from, but I'm just out of money, JGrahn. Maximum power is no longer the goal. I'm going to run 5psi max, and I just want something to keep my engine richer than stock. People create reliable low boost turbo kits using these regs. all the time, so don't tell me it's not feasible.
09-25-2003, 10:47 AM
#9
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People upgrade from the simple set up because their car is their passion, they get a little more money saved up, want more power-up the boost. There's lots of people who run the simple setup without problems, and some who blow things up.
Yes, an adjustable FPR replaces the stock unit in most cases. I don't know why you would want one though. I don't see a reason to simply raise fuel pressure across the board. An adjustable FPR does just that. Say you have 35 psi at idle, stock, and for some odd reason you want 45 psi, then you buy an adjustable unit. The RRFPR builds fuel pressure according to boost pressure, which is what you want. If you raise your fuel pressure above stock all the time, you're wasting fuel. You only need more fuel on boost.
Maybe "555" can say something about the usefulness of a normal FPR, I don't really know.
Yes, an adjustable FPR replaces the stock unit in most cases. I don't know why you would want one though. I don't see a reason to simply raise fuel pressure across the board. An adjustable FPR does just that. Say you have 35 psi at idle, stock, and for some odd reason you want 45 psi, then you buy an adjustable unit. The RRFPR builds fuel pressure according to boost pressure, which is what you want. If you raise your fuel pressure above stock all the time, you're wasting fuel. You only need more fuel on boost.
Maybe "555" can say something about the usefulness of a normal FPR, I don't really know.
09-25-2003, 12:09 PM
#10
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Originally posted by jid2
There's lots of people who run the simple setup without problems, and some who blow things up.
There's lots of people who run the simple setup without problems, and some who blow things up.
Yes, an adjustable FPR replaces the stock unit in most cases. I don't know why you would want one though. I don't see a reason to simply raise fuel pressure across the board. An adjustable FPR does just that. Say you have 35 psi at idle, stock, and for some odd reason you want 45 psi, then you buy an adjustable unit. The RRFPR builds fuel pressure according to boost pressure, which is what you want. If you raise your fuel pressure above stock all the time, you're wasting fuel. You only need more fuel on boost.
Maybe "555" can say something about the usefulness of a normal FPR, I don't really know. [/B]
Maybe "555" can say something about the usefulness of a normal FPR, I don't really know. [/B]
A stock fpr is good for stock applications, they're plenty useful there.
You do understand how a rising rate pressure regulator works, right? Lets say you have one of those 4:1 RRFPRs. Now lets say your base pressure is 20 psi (this is not the ACTUAL base pressure for a subaru, it's just a nice number that's easy to work with). You have 1 psi of boost, you now have 4 extra psi of fuel. 2 psi of boost = 8 psi of fuel. 5 psi of fuel = 20 extra psi of fuel. THAT'S 40 PSI OF FUEL, INSTEAD OF 25. Do you see a large difference there? Your application probably needs only a couple more PSI of fuel pressure then you receive stock, but 15 pounds is WAY to much.
Your stock regulator is 1:1. 5lbs of boost = 5 psi of fuel. If you want to talk about wasting fuel, with a rising rate, you have quadrupled what your engine requires! This makes you run super-rich, which leads to tons of other problems.
As engine load increases, more fuel pressure is needed. This is due to the richer mixture (more fuel needed) and to overcome the increased air pressure in the ports. Any unused fuel is diverted back to the fuel tank using a return line. Using an adjustable FPR allows you to fine tune adjust your base pressure up, giving you the effect of a larger injector.
Many, many, many people who upgrade their turbos the slow and easy way start out with an adjustable FPR and an S-AFC. Tune your AFC right the first time, then you won't have to worry about resetting it all the time. Without the AFC, how will you know what your injector duty cycle is?
09-25-2003, 01:25 PM
#11
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Buddy-
no one here is upgrading their turbo, we're talking about a NA car with an aftermarket turbo. Show me an aftermarket turbo kit that comes with just a FPR for fuel enrichment. Sure the SFC works, kinda, but it's shifty, who cares if it works on your honda; maybe I can put your honda ecu in my subaru and fix everything. Do you even own a subaru with an aftermarket turbo? Ludespeed sells 12:1 RRFPR with their kits, which is a lot of extra fuel, but no one runs less than 4:1. A couple more psi for 5lbs of boost; get real. 15-20 lbs more is just what you need.
no one here is upgrading their turbo, we're talking about a NA car with an aftermarket turbo. Show me an aftermarket turbo kit that comes with just a FPR for fuel enrichment. Sure the SFC works, kinda, but it's shifty, who cares if it works on your honda; maybe I can put your honda ecu in my subaru and fix everything. Do you even own a subaru with an aftermarket turbo? Ludespeed sells 12:1 RRFPR with their kits, which is a lot of extra fuel, but no one runs less than 4:1. A couple more psi for 5lbs of boost; get real. 15-20 lbs more is just what you need.
Last edited by jid2; 09-25-2003 at 01:58 PM.
09-25-2003, 02:12 PM
#12
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Hey Jid, since we're buddies and all... I think you need to calm down a bit champ. You're the one that keeps saying "I dont know."
Impreza7, I've given you reasons why I know you should go the route I've provided. You make your call. Since jid seems insistant on belittling someone who knows what they're doing, I'll leave you to your own devices.
Have fun.
Impreza7, I've given you reasons why I know you should go the route I've provided. You make your call. Since jid seems insistant on belittling someone who knows what they're doing, I'll leave you to your own devices.
Have fun.
09-25-2003, 02:35 PM
#13
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Originally posted by jid2
A couple more psi for 5lbs of boost; get real. 15-20 lbs more is just what you need.
A couple more psi for 5lbs of boost; get real. 15-20 lbs more is just what you need.
09-26-2003, 10:37 AM
#14
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Yeah, well unfortunately I live in the real world and don't work for a Subaru tuner, so "real" engine management is just too damn expensive right now. I'm well aware that this is the best way, and someday in the future it will be what I will use, but for now I guess I'm just looking for the best solution under $200.
This I-Club attitude like engine management is the only way has been bothering me for quite some time now. I go on to NASIOC and there's extensive discussions on how to safely turbo a 2.2 or 2.5 without it. You simply MUST exercise restraint with psi and understand that it might not idle perfect or make 300 wheel, but it can still run well and live a happy, WRX smoking existence.
Besides, if money were no obstacle, very few of us could honestly say they'd be driving a Subaru in the first place. Just keep it real and help people accomplish their goals through everyone's knowledge and experience. That is the point of I-Club isn't it??????
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This I-Club attitude like engine management is the only way has been bothering me for quite some time now. I go on to NASIOC and there's extensive discussions on how to safely turbo a 2.2 or 2.5 without it. You simply MUST exercise restraint with psi and understand that it might not idle perfect or make 300 wheel, but it can still run well and live a happy, WRX smoking existence.
Besides, if money were no obstacle, very few of us could honestly say they'd be driving a Subaru in the first place. Just keep it real and help people accomplish their goals through everyone's knowledge and experience. That is the point of I-Club isn't it??????
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